Lee Loughnane Trumpet Interview

Welcome to the show notes for Episode #128 of The Other Side of the Bell – A Trumpet Podcast. This episode features trumpeter & founder of the band Chicago, Lee Loughnane. Listen to or download the episode below:

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About Lee Loughnane

Lee Loughnane of the band Chicago joins host John Snell today to talk about discovering the trumpet and committing to a career in music, the groundbreaking idea of putting horns front and center in a rock and roll band, and stories of writing and recording some of those famous and iconic trumpet parts. Lee Loughnane was eleven when his father asked him if he wanted to play an instrument. His dad had played trumpet when he was a kid, all the way through his time in the Army Air Force, but the horn was now up in the attic. Fortunately, that meant Lee already had a great instrument: a Bach Stradivarius.
Lee’s dad took him to meet the band director at St. Celestine grade school in Elmwood Park, Ralph Meltzer, who said “show me your teeth.” He wanted to make sure they were straight so the mouthpiece wouldn’t tear up the inside of Lee’s lip. Lee passed the visual audition and became a trumpet player that day.

Lee and audio engineer Tim Jessup convinced the rest of the band that the studio was going to be good enougquality to make a record with, and they recorded a version of “Dialogue”, on the bus, one instrument at a time and then mixed. Everybody was so pleased with the final product that Chicago XXXVl was recorded over 2013-14 without going into a studio.

Lee Loughnane Links

• Official Website for the band Chicago

Podcast Credits

• “A Room with a View“ – composed and performed by Howie Shear
• Audio Engineer – Ted Cragg
• Cover Art – Phil Jordan
• Podcast Host – John Snell
• Cover art photo credit: Blushing Cactus Photography

Transcript

Please note, this transcript is automatically generated. It may contain spelling and other errors. If you would like to assist us in editing or translating this transcript, please let us know at info@bobreeves.com.

John Snell: Hello, and welcome to the other side of the Bell, a podcast dedicated to everything trumpet brought to you by Bob Reeves Brass. We’ll help you take your trumpet playing To the next level,

I’m John Snell, trumpet specialist at Bob Reeves Brass, and I’ll be your host for this episode. My special guest today is Trumpeter and founder of the band Chicago Lee Loughnane. We’ll get to Lee’s interview here in a moment after a word from our sponsor and some news. 

A huge thank you to everyone who visited us either at TMEA or at the National Trumpet Competition last week. it’s been quite a whirlwind start to the year. It always is. This is always our busy season and, uh, as always, we’ve sold out on valve alignments and some horns, and.

Plenty of mouthpieces found happy homes at these events. So thank you to everyone who came by. Also, a lot of podcast listeners came up. I really need to start making a list. We we’re so crazy at these events. but so many of you come up and say you listened to the podcast. Some of you are longtime listeners.

Some of you just found out about the podcast and have 128. Episodes to go back and, uh, binge listen. so thank you. It means a lot. and I also get a lot of suggestions for guests and, some of these folks coming up this year. our thanks to listener suggestions, so make sure you get those into me.

This is your podcast as much as it is mine, in the shops. And so we want as guests, the people you want to hear from. so that being said, a few things I wanna mention. we are gonna be around town for a while, but we do have some, trips scheduled. the first trip is to Dylan Music in New Jersey.

we don’t have the dates nailed down yet. But that will be later this spring, most likely late April, early May. So put that on your calendars. Make sure you follow us on social media. Make sure we have your email address so that we can let you know when we get out to New Jersey and New York, right across the bay there.

for valve alignments and mouthpieces. With our good friends at Dylan Music, end of May, the International Woman’s Brass Conference in Connecticut. I believe that’s at the Hart School. that’s Memorial Day weekend. We’re 99% sure we’re gonna be at that. if for some reason we’re not, we will definitely have our mouthpieces there with one of the local music stores.

ITG is coming up then that following week at Salt Lake City. We always go all out for that. That’ll be at the University of Utah, that week after Memorial Day. So last few days of May, first few days of June, also working on another Europe tour, and also working on an Australian tour. It’s been, oh man, six years, six and a half years since we’ve been to Australia and can’t wait to go back.

1. follow us on, social media. Go to our website, make sure we have your email address so we can let you know, where we’re going to be. a couple things. We just started carrying the new, uh, Hirschman mutes, the Kenny Rampton plungers, the KR Indigo and the KR Indigo Max, with the.

trademarked Kenny Penny Valve system. Wonderful, wonderful plunger mute for trumpet. and we’re gonna have Kenny on a future episode. He explains about the development of those mutes and a fascinating story and a wonderful mute. We have those in stock now to add to all the other great mutes we have.

we also got the herschman pixie mute in stock. picked up some of those as well. We also got some new vin pixie mutes. So, two great designs. Not a lot of pixie mutes out there, but we have two of the best, if not the two best in terms of sound and intonation. big thanks to Kenny Rampton and Ed Hirshman from Hirshman Mutes and of course Lasa Lindgren at.

Vin Buttes for making such great products, to add to, uh, the mouthpieces we make, speaking of which we get a lot of, calls and questions about, uh, consultations. Our consultations are always free. you can schedule a phone consultation online, anytime. With us, and if you want to come in and visit the shop, it’s highly recommended.

Not very many places you’re gonna find 300 plus. I think we have 350 mouthpieces in stock, and either Brett or myself or one of our other staff to help you choose the correct one. All that is available@bobreeves.com. That’s all the news that’s fit to print. And let’s get right to our interview with Lee Lougnane. 

John Snell: My guest today is Lee Loughnane, a founding member and legendary trumpeter of the iconic band Chicago. Born in Elmwood Park, Illinois. Lee began his musical journey playing his father’s box strata various trumpet in 1967 while attending DePaul University, Lee co-founded a rock band with horns that later evolved into Chicago. 

Lee’s contributions include co-writing hits like Call on me and No Tell Lover. And beyond his trumpet playing prowess, he has taken on lead vocals on tracks such as Song of the Evergreens, and Together Again.

Over the decades, Chicago has achieved remarkable success, including five consecutive number one albums on the Billboard, 221 top 10 singles on the billboard, hot 100. They were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2016 and received a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in 2020. And now without further ado, here’s my interview with Lee Loughnane.

John Snell: I’m so excited to have my special guest today, Lee Loughnane from the band Chicago. And it, what’s incredible to me is I was watching you from the back row of a sports arena just a few months ago, and now here we are face to face, so

I’m so excited. Uh, Palm Desert, back in September, I saw you guys the double bill with Earth, wind and Fire and, uh,

Lee Loughnane: yes. Yeah. Right.

John Snell: yeah.

Lee Loughnane: a fun show.

John Snell: yeah. And who’d, who’d have thought then? Here I am chatting with you now, so let’s, let’s get going. Lee, thank you for being here.

Lee Loughnane: Thanks for having me.

John Snell: Happy to have you. And let’s start right from the beginning. How did you end up on trumpet?

Lee Loughnane: Great question. My father had played the trumpet when he was in the service. In fact, he grew up in Chicago as well, on the south side.

And uh, he somehow picked up the trumpet. I’m not quite sure why or how he started himself, but when he went into the Army, he was still a musician. And I never actually heard him play amazingly enough because by the time he came out of the service, he had stopped playing. And the only thing he brought

home was his horn. In fact, he was pretty much turned off to the music industry because there was so much booze and drugs going on. And you know, he had the cover for a lot of his guys because it was wartime and guys from all the great big bands of the day. The dance bands

would come through his band first before they got shipped overseas to the front lines or wherever they got shipped to next.

And yeah,

John Snell: he got to play with some of the greats, then some of the guys

Lee Loughnane: or, or at least listening to ’em. I’m not

sure how much he played with the band, but he was definitely the conductor.

John Snell: Involved in it. Interesting.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. And he never went overseas himself, which I think was probably a, a marvel at the time because, you know, it seemed like they would’ve been able to find another band director.

But

John Snell: if,

Lee Loughnane: I mean, I have no idea what the reasoning was, but he would have guys come out of the Tommy Dorsey and Jimmy Dorsey band, and Glen Miller Band. All, all the bands, you know, and while they were with him on the weekends or probably anytime they felt like it, they would go awol

and go play a gig somewhere and come back stoned or drunk or

whatever. And he would cover for them at least. That was the story I got. And I’m, I’m sure sometimes he probably, you know, was, had got fed up with it and didn’t cover anymore and they got, they got thrown out of the service or some,

you know, whatever happened at the time or deserters or you know, whatever they would’ve called it.

John Snell: yeah. A crazy time. Fascinating to think about all these basically, yeah. Jazz musicians getting

Lee Loughnane: Jazz musicians coming in with a, and training with a broom ’cause they didn’t have enough guns to go around,

John Snell: Yeah. Fascinating. So that was his background. So did he get you on trumpet after, uh,

Lee Loughnane: he came home and the only thing he kept was his trumpet. He didn’t bring in any of the mutes or any of the other paraphernalia with him.

And he just put the horn up in the attic in the

house. And, um, when I was old enough to join a band, he asked if I was interested in playing the trumpet. He must have been talking to my mom or something.

And they ca they went, Hey, let’s ask him if, uh, you know, he wants to do that.

So we went and saw the band director at St. Stein’s grade school in Elmwood Park. And, uh, he took a look at my teeth to see that I wasn’t going to, um, damage myself in any way. And, uh, I passed muster. So I started playing the trumpet and I haven’t stopped since then.

That was 11 years old.

John Snell: 11 years

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. I’m not even sure what grade that, what grade is that?

John Snell: Fifth grade. Fourth, fifth grade. Yeah. Cool. So you were, so you were young, so you were in elementary school. You get handed this trumpet and I mean, did your father try to help you or would you learn through the band program?

Lee Loughnane: I learned through the band program and he got me private lessons with a guy named John Nuno,

who was a, like a working weekend musician. But he had been around the block. He had learned all kinds of tunes and, you know, he was able to do weddings and, you know, like

the guys that you talk to now, like Wayne Bergeron and and Arturo Sandoval, they have to get themselves ready. For everything.

They have no idea. Once they take a gig, what is going to be put in front of ’em.

So they have to be ready for jazz, rock and roll, big band, high notes, low notes, medium.

You know, Wayne and, and Arturo always high notes or at least, uh, you know, solos and

John Snell: Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: But they have to be ready for every type of music.

And I have, for whatever reasons, never had to do that because I joined the band Chicago

John Snell: Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: and we had no idea where we were going. We were all still in the learning process of, you know what this music thing is.

John Snell: I, I, I wanna delve into that. I, I’m curious, like, was, I mean, your early inspirations, were they from your dad, were they the dance band, the big band players, or were you

Lee Loughnane: Well, yeah, I used to li, I used to listen to his records, so I listened to Glen Miller and, you know, right. And uh, so I played along with that stuff. And then when Maynard came out, I tried playing along with his, I was going, man, I’m never going to get up to those stratospheric notes. And as of yet, I still haven’t. And I, you know, I’m closing in on an octogenarian, so it’s, it’s not likely that I’m gonna be up in the, the stratosphere anytime soon. But I got some pretty good range for my age, I think.

John Snell: Yeah. And, and still cranking out shows, man, I,

Lee Loughnane: Yes, yes.

John Snell: that was, an amazing show, as I mentioned. So you’re growing, did you want to be a musician? Like once you started playing trumpet, did it just, did you fall in love with it?

Lee Loughnane: Once I started, I fell in love with it. And, uh, there was no turning back.

In fact, originally, you know, when I was doing more of the band training, I’m pretty sure that was the time. You know, the guys would come by my house and go, yo Lee, and they’d wanna go play baseball,

and my dad wouldn’t let me go ’cause I had to practice first.

So that angered me

initially. And then when I started enjoying practice and I told him, I, I had decided I liked it enough or I was gonna do this as a career, I was gonna become a professional musician. He tried to talk me out of it and I went, now it’s too late. Sorry. Now it’s

too late. I’m in,

John Snell: I think you did pretty well for yourself. Uh, I don’t know. You haven’t retired yet.

Lee Loughnane: I haven’t retired, but retired. A what, where

am I gonna go?

John Snell: You love what you do

Lee Loughnane: you know what? I think I’ll become a major golfer. I.

John Snell: There

in your second career. I love

Lee Loughnane: career.

John Snell: I love it. So, but you actually, you went to university for music, right? In the Chicago area,

Lee Loughnane: DePaul University. I never actually graduated. Walt Pariser was the only one of the band who graduated from college, and I always, I, I initially, I was threatening to maybe go back to school and finish a degree,

but you know, here I

1. That was a long time ago.

John Snell: So let’s talk about your college years. Were you studying classical trumpet?

Lee Loughnane: I was in music education. I really had no aspirations other than to work on

music. I. And there wasn’t anything specifically, but I liked classical music. I liked rock and roll, I liked jazz. I liked big band. And I think, you know, when you look at the way we phrase over the years, over the decades, you hear all of those styles within our playing, sometimes within a bar with, you know, a section of the tune is like, right. And then the next one is,

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: within the same song.

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: And that just comes from what we grew up listening to and enjoying ourselves. And I think everybody in the band pretty much did it the same way. That’s why we, nobody knew when we came out with the, the first album where to put us in the music store, they hit, what are they?

So they made up that term, uh, jazz rock,

John Snell: Jazz rock,

Lee Loughnane: and that became our title.

John Snell: yeah, which is just amazing to think about. Like you, I mean,

Lee Loughnane: Pretty

John Snell: yeah. You defined a genre, you know,

Lee Loughnane: right? Well, we used to say too that, you know, they named a city after us.

John Snell: And, and I know this is probably well traversed territory, but can you take us to the beginnings of the band? I mean, you started as a cover band, right?

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. The big thing was a cover band. And, uh, that was after the missing links broke up. And I used to go sit in with the missing links and we’d just play, you know, James Brown tunes and they were trying to get a hit record too. And when that pretty much failed, they realized they weren’t gonna go anywhere.

They wanted to form another band with horns. And go to Vegas and play in those smaller clubs. In the casinos. You go in and put on a show, you know, a little tiny show and they go, yeah, yeah, okay. Or get drunk and throw shit at you.

You know,

John Snell: Yeah. The like the lounge acts and stuff.

Lee Loughnane: the, lounge acts right? Right. So we got a suit with two pairs of pants and tried doing some steps and stuff, but we thank God we didn’t have to do the steps or we would’ve never made it.

And, and Michael Jackson came after us. So

when all of that dancing stuff happened in every song you had to dance,

John Snell: Oh. Yeah. And, and I have to ask you, ’cause you, I mean, I’ve played in a number of cover bands and played obviously Chicago Tunes. So you started as a cover band without Chicago to cover. You mentioned James Brown. Like what other stuff are you guys playing?

Lee Loughnane: You know, top 40 stuff, mostly r and b ’cause that’s the stuff we liked the most. We did like the letter

by the box tops. We did Motown stuff as much as we could. And then when the Beatles came out, we started doing Beatles tunes. In fact, I played bass for a little help from my friends. That was when all those lyrical baselines,

boom, boom, boom, boom. Fun, fun stuff.

Thank you, Paul.

John Snell: give your chops a little rest too.

Lee Loughnane: Well, yeah, that felt good then.

But you know, when I look back on how I played all through the years, for decades, it was just like blasting thinking. I was holding back, but blasting at the same time because we couldn’t hear well enough to figure it out.

Now I have ear monitors in and through really listening to Wayne and Arturo and various other players on Google, they talk about how they get that first note going and that first position of the good spot of the note, the perfect spot

where the note really should be sitting and then doing stuff to work on the muscles just around the mouth and keeping this subtle so that the only thing it has to do is buzz.

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: And when it hits a mouthpiece, you hear the buzzing sound.

You can hear the buzzing sound without the mouthpiece, but it’s harder to hit the notes. And I mean, a lot of those guys could do all that stuff. They can, they can hit the notes, but blasting

every night, every night and, uh, get used to it. And when you blast that hard, there’s a lot of things you screw up

at certain points.

So, so there are things that I still hear today that we recorded or that were recorded while we were playing, and, uh, I’m going, oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. I took that one down in Octa. Oh yeah, yeah. I got, I remember that one. I almost remembered like the specific night. And then Pan Jimmy Panko, the trombone player, wrote so many parts that we had very few rests. The horns were always playing from one section of the song to the next.

And uh, we said, Jimmy, we, you know, we need like four by rest or something. He, oh, no, no, we gotta play pads there. You know? So would, would you beat the hell out of you even more when you’re playing pads? Even if it’s in the middle register?

John Snell: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: and I know trumpet players know what I’m talking about

and you know, so

John Snell: and the folks that have to play that stuff now, it looks deceptively easier than it is until you get two or three Chicago tunes in a row,

Lee Loughnane: Oh my God. And you go B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B. How many times in I’m going

play that B

John Snell: Uh, oh my gosh. Was there a moment then when you went from a cover band to being, well, I guess it was Chicago Transit Authority first, but being a band of original tunes and with your own works.

Lee Loughnane: Well, we had original song, well actually Robert had a book of like 50 original tunes that he had started writing way back when. We started bringing them out in clubs and then we would find out very quickly that the owner didn’t want us to play that, you know? And uh, if you played it twice we got fired. So, you know, we had to the choice between whether we wanted a gig or not,

basically. So we put up with it for a long time until our first producer brought us out to California. And in fact, before that there was a club called the Barnaby’s and the owners. We did some strange drug deals with them too. But, uh, so our, our 15 minute breaks were to smoke a joint.

You know, we, and that’s when Satera got, uh, involved with us. We all of a sudden we needed a bass player because the base pedals on the organ were not cutting, didn’t have enough punch with him.

So we needed a bass player, and he was sick of his band and came over and joined us, and he came out of the drinking crowd,

you know, so we were mixing the hippies with the drinkers. And, uh,

that was our first mix. And that was, that wasn’t the musical mix, that was the Booz and drugs mix.

John Snell: It’s amazing that anyone made it outta the sixties. It’s,

Lee Loughnane: It’s amazing. We lived, I mean, I, I, I’m quite serious. I’m a, it’s amazing that I lived, I don’t know if you saw our 50th anniversary documentary

John Snell: Yeah. Actually, I saw it flying home from somewhere, Boston or someplace I was, I saw that on, I was like, oh my gosh, I don’t have to watch a terrible movie. I can watch you guys with all those special gifts. That was amazing. Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: And then we did a 55th anniversary

documentary, and, and that was to show that after the 50th year, most bands break up. You never hear from ’em again.

Or it’s like, where did those guys go? What happened to them? Where are they now? So we did a 55th anniversary documentary to document that not only were we still playing and it’s 58 years now, we just celebrated the 58th anniversary February 15th, the day

after Valentine’s Day. So we did the 55th to show that we’re still playing. It’s continuing on. We’re not stopping anytime soon because people still wanna hear what we do and did. And it still sounds good enough where they don’t throw anything at us. Everybody has a good time. And, uh. There’s no reason to stop, tell you the truth.

If people stop buying tickets, you’ll see me home a lot more.

You know?

John Snell: Yeah. Well, yeah, that’s, and I, you know, I brought my boys to the concert and it’s amazing to think that, you know, almost 60 years later you’re still entertaining and the next generation now is listening

Lee Loughnane: A few generations. How?

How old are your kids? There

John Snell: eight and 14 now. Trumpet and trombone.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. They’re in music too.

John Snell: Yeah. They’re doing the thing. So, and they were inspired by, you know, both bands, seeing you guys out front and.

So Lee, so many different people in Chicago, so many of the members wrote and contributed. What were some of the influences that you guys had that you brought into your compositions?

Lee Loughnane: We had jazz influences, classical influences, uh, electronic music influences, you know, uh, cage and, uh, jazz guy, Freddie Hubbard and, uh, Lee Morgan. When the Sidewinder, you talk about wearing our albums out, we wore the Sidewinder out. You know, uh, can cannonball adderley.

You got to walk tall, you know, I mean, some great stuff that Cannonball and, and Nat did. And now, even now, I go back and I listen to those things so often,

turn on the radio and you, you hear just a couple bars and you know what it is

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: I gotta listen to it. You know, you, you can’t turn it off. Great music

John Snell: Would you guys listen together as a band? Listen to music ’cause you’re hanging out together.

Lee Loughnane: Sometimes, yeah, we would listen to, uh, like Aaron Copeland, I think definitely, um, fanfare for the Common Man we would listen to, to, I mean, that was a, oh my god, what? But when you listen to the whole symphony together, the, the third symphony, uh, emotional,

John Snell: Yeah.

Yeah.

And then you guys would bring that inspiration into your charts?

Lee Loughnane: Not because we’re thinking, Hey, let’s do something like that.

It just, we would play something that Jimmy had written or I started writing later on in the career.

The way we play it is the type of things that we used to listen to come into that phrasing.

John Snell: You bring that vocabulary and, yeah.

Lee Loughnane: It’s, it’s hard to even explain where that comes from other than that’s how we heard those notes being played.

John Snell: Interesting. So yeah, the sat, Peter sat joins the band.

You guys decide to go into the

Lee Loughnane: I almost hesitate to, to mention his name again ’cause everybody’s forgotten that he was, even with us,

John Snell: But I mean, he join, he joins in, and then you guys, you just decide to go into the studios and put down the first album.

Lee Loughnane: our original producer went to New York and uh, got a deal. He was a producer

at CBS and uh, he was able to put a deal together. And that first album was a

double record, which was unprecedented as well. But the songs were long enough where if we didn’t do two records, you would’ve only heard like three or

four songs. So I think that one only had, uh, what was it, seven, eight songs?

John Snell: one was, uh, three tunes. Side two was, uh, three tunes side, uh, three tunes on each side, so 12 total.

Lee Loughnane: right. And that was at a time where the record companies were paying on unlimited copyrights. So when they decided around our, I think the fifth album,

the one we did, uh, Saturday in the park on the fifth album, that’s when the record companies all decided they were only gonna pay on 10 copyrights. Changed the music industry completely because the writers didn’t want to share if they wrote 11 tunes, all of a sudden they gotta

share their royalties with some somebody else besides co-writing with somebody. They had to share with another writer that didn’t even write the song. Right.

John Snell: Interesting. Interesting.

Lee Loughnane: So they weren’t into that, I don’t think. And you never hear anybody actually say that. That gotta be some logic there. Everything in the world is monetary at some point. Right.

John Snell: Yeah. So did when you were recording the first album, did you know it would be as big of a hit as it ended up being? I.

Lee Loughnane: Had no idea. None. We just knew the material real well. The only thing we didn’t know was how to record. And then when we heard that the microphones are gonna pick up every little thing that you do that scares you to the point where you make more mistakes than you normally would. So we had to settle into that and basically learn how far to stay away from the mic, you know, if you’re doing an overdub. Because I think on the first album, yeah, we doubled the same parts. So we did a basic version and then we doubled on the other on another track. And that’s how you got

that buzzy sound. ’cause we were close enough in tune that it buzzed right then. Then. And we played the same notes from on both tracks. And they were close enough together, uh, tuning wise everyone. And we were going, what is that noise? And I’m sure everybody who heard that went, what is that noise? Uh, I guess they don’t know how to, the voice, they don’t know how to change the voices so it doesn’t bus, I dunno. Anyway,

John Snell: So the first album was, I mean, it was obviously commercially successful, but it was also a learning experience for the band,

Lee Loughnane: Oh, without a doubt. It was so successful that we were stars in Europe. First time we went to Europe, we were big stars already and we had no idea what that meant.

John Snell: bunch of music majors from Chicago.

Lee Loughnane: Go, Chico Go. He said, oh, yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun. And then when we came back, the album started to take off in America,

but AM Radio would not play our singles that we released because they said we didn’t have a hit yet.

And you know, catch 22, how you gonna have a hit if you don’t play the song?

Duh. And when we released the second album, so we just kept playing colleges all over the country and that’s how we built our initial audience. While we were out, we were writing simultaneously, or the writers were writing the second album when we got home or when we’d have breaks, we’d go into the studio and record those songs.

It’s where, you know, ballet for Girl and Buchanan came from and that specific song. The radio, top 40 radio decided that they liked to make me smile, but of course, ballet for a Girl and Buchanan was like 14 minutes long.

So they’re not gonna play all that. Say I cut all that classical stuff out, you know, so we, we, edit it down.

So we had, uh, make me smile and then make me smile refreeze, and we just sort of splice the tape out of there and taped them together. And b, we were done.

John Snell: That was it.

Lee Loughnane: And that was, uh, I think three and a half minutes or, or three, whatever the

John Snell: Yeah. Perfect. Radio length. Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: as much as they would allow us to play is what we had.

So that became our first hit.

John Snell: So that’s fascinating. So you were big in Europe, but then you still couldn’t get radio play in the us So you basically, how did, how did you fund the tours? Was that the label doing that, going to the colleges?

Lee Loughnane: I don’t know, I just kept playing. I, I was just, I don’t think any of us really knew anything.

John Snell: He just showed up and plate and

Lee Loughnane: I’m not sure we know much more now, but, uh, but a few decades have gone by.

John Snell: I bet you you had management and they, the infrastructure by that

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. you had to give him something to steal. Oh, sorry guys. Did I say that out loud?

John Snell: Oh, I love it. I love it. How do you really feel, Lee?

Lee Loughnane: oh, no, no, no. no. It’s fine. It’s

fine. Well, I mean, for me to still be here is miraculous for the band to still be here is a testament to the strength of the music that came through.

John Snell: Yeah. Because especially there’s so many different aspects to a band. I mean, you guys are a family, but you’re also a business. You’re also artist and your personalities. You’re like a family, and any one of those boxes can cause the reason why Ben’s out. Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: And do, and do. So, I mean, we could have broken up probably, eh, uh, a few hundred times. In 58 years,

John Snell: But the, you guys had a common love for the music and the tunes.

Lee Loughnane: And once we got on stage, all of that went away and we played, we liked the way it sounded,

the audiences liked the way it sounded then and still now. So whatever else was going on are the kind of things that you don’t really want to hear about.

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: You know, you want to keep the bands on the pedestals. You don’t want to hear who wrote what line in the Beatles tunes and who got put down on that Tuesday, you

know, and they should have done this and, and Harrison overlooked and all of the other stuff that you just want ’em to be the Beatles.

John Snell: yeah, yeah. Like that. Uh, well, that was at the, the documentary that came out on Apple TV a few years ago, where it was basically them doing that recording session and all the good and the bad, and it’s like,

Lee Loughnane: Well, yeah, there you could see, I mean, we’ve done, when I was watching, I was going, it looks like us. You go in and you just sort of hang around. What do you wanna do? Let’s eat. You know? Or you go out and have a smoke and you come back in. You wanna play something,

John Snell: yeah.

Lee Loughnane: I don’t know. What are we gonna play?

Okay, let’s try that one. Or you are actually working up songs. And at that time they were trying to still write songs and they had nothing,

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: nothing new. That’s why they went to 9 0 9,

which George Martin didn’t like because it was a tune that they wrote when they were like 17 or something.

John Snell: Yeah, yeah,

Lee Loughnane: And that became a hit too.

I think

John Snell: yeah. Let’s, I want to talk, uh, get back to trumpet a little bit. I love talking about the band, obviously. So what, like in the, in especially in the early days of the band, like what equipment were you using?

Lee Loughnane: I was using a Holton

B 47 and a 10 and a half C mouthpiece.

John Snell: Wow.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah, and I was smoking at the same time, so I had smaller equipment to be able to handle, I guess not having, uh, who knows? ’cause a lot of guys

smoke and they, they blow the walls down. So what do I know?

Uh, you know, all I know is that I was, I was playing what I was playing on, thinking that that was the right stuff for me at the time.

And then, and then I graduated to, uh, seven C and I’ve pretty much been on a seven C since then. I had a version of a seven C with Bob

when he was first in business that he started, what, 68 or nine?

John Snell: Yeah. 68.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah.

So, and our, our first album came out in 69, so we

started 67. We started around, around the same time. So he was building momentum as we were,

you know, building up a clientele and the screw on mouthpieces and shanks and stuff, and.

John Snell: All the DO dads.

Lee Loughnane: Which way beyond me. So

Bob stood in one side of the room and I just tried different things and he went, that’s the one, you know? I went, okay, well I’ll buy one of these then, you know, ’cause it, they

all felt good, but that one sounded better than the others.

John Snell: How cool. So you went to, you were at the old, the original shop down off of Melrose, uh, in early days of the band. Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: And I couldn’t tell you to this day what it was, and you probably don’t have a record of

what it was either.

John Snell: I’m gonna go look now, see what, uh, see if we have anything on

Lee Loughnane: did I have? But I would say it was probably like a seven C rim

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: that equivalent to a B,

right?

John Snell: Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. So 41 Rim probably or 42, or he, he might’ve known Bob. He might’ve just threaded a Bach rim chopped one off or carved one. Yeah,

Lee Loughnane: Right. I don’t know,

but uh, the one you sent me felt like, I’m not quite sure what those numbers are, but that feels like a A seven C, but for some reason I haven’t been able to play that. I had to go back to the Claude Gordon, the CG personal,

and I really don’t know exactly what the CG personal is other than big,

John Snell: It’s big.

Lee Loughnane: know, and a 20 drill.

And I think what you sent me was 16 drill.

John Snell: Probably 26 if it was our, I think it was our C Cup.

Lee Loughnane: Oh, 20. Oh, that’s right. The

wrong.

John Snell: Other direction.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah.

yeah, yeah. Smaller is higher.

John Snell: well, it just means you have to get you out to LA and we’ll, uh, we’ll bring you in the shop again.

Somebody’s when you’re not on the road.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. When is that,

that I’ll be on the road being in la?

John Snell: Yeah. Did you have a practice routine? Uh, again, still kind of focusing in on the early days?

Lee Loughnane: Early days I did schlosberg

and you know, some slurs and technical studies and that kinda stuff. In California, I met, uh, Paul Witt

and we had a bunch of albums under our belt already and we had just finished an album. I forget what number it was, but I knew that once I went on the road and started beating myself up, pretty much some of the range. That I put into that album was going to start going away and I was gonna have to be playing it down in Octave. And he said, well, you know, I can show you a couple things if you want. And you know, he outlined a couple of the Claude Gordon books and uh, colon lip flexibilities. And,

and I’ve been playing those out of those books ever since, probably fewer books through the years than all of the other guys that you will even talk to. And, you know, ’cause everybody’s changing teachers and they get a new book with a different teacher and probably, uh, you know, a different style of playing and all of the other things that go on.

I’ve pretty much stuck with things that work for me and we work so much that I don’t want to change too many things too quickly.

And, you know, you know, 50 years, that’s, that’s not very quickly,

John Snell: Yeah. Well, but, and, and as you started the interview with, you know, you have a unique position in that

Lee Loughnane: Exactly.

John Snell: you know exactly what you’re gonna play and people are showing up, expecting to hear. ’cause anybody really know what time it is. And the solo played a certain way and the charts played a certain way,

Lee Loughnane: I tried, I started playing different renditions of the solo and, and then after a while I went, you know, I’m not sure that works. ’cause when I listened to like the Eagles or, or the Beatles for that

matter, they play their songs pretty much how they recorded them.

And they still have a little, some nuances to them. So it’s not completely exactly by rote. Oh my God. You have to hit that note and only hold it three and a half beats, so you’re not really locked in. It’s still free, but the same.

John Snell: Yeah, yeah.

Lee Loughnane: and as guys have come through, and a few guys obviously have left our band, and Terry unfortunately died.

So the anybody that came in is not Terry,

they’re them. But they heard Terry. They want to emulate Terry and they want to play the arrangements the way we had ’em written. But they are able to bring their style into it and we don’t stop them from doing that.

John Snell: Yeah, yeah. That’s great.

Lee Loughnane: you don’t have to sound like anybody other than yourself playing the parts.

John Snell: Yeah, and it’s like how you think about like the dance bands and the big band stuff. You know, if you were sitting in a casual and playing string of pearls, you know, people like would expect to hear some semblance of that famous trumpet solo.

Lee Loughnane: But

John Snell: Yeah,

Lee Loughnane: I did the same thing.

I just did it in a different key when we did the big band album.

John Snell: yeah. Oh, that’s right. Yeah, yeah, that’s right. Yeah. So would you consider yourself a practicer, even from, uh, the early days of the band, you would do a daily routine and

Lee Loughnane: Oh yeah. Every day. I still do it now.

Oh yeah. I, and having seen a lot of the Google stuff with, with Wayne and various other trumpet players, they start out with that, you know, centering that first note,

get started. Right. And you’re not forcing it out. You’re just sort of letting the lips buzz. ’cause that’s their only job.

No matter what register you’re in.

Everything else can be, you know, firm, solid and built up. You know, somebody feels your, oh my god, you, your muscle. You know. But the center soft, supple must be,

if that gets hard, you get the air notes. I wonder why it doesn’t buzz. ’cause you just flattened it. You dummy.

John Snell: That makes so much sense when you say it. So, and, and I wanna get back, so you were saying like you recorded the one album with more of the high register stuff and you started working with Paul Witt, did the Claude Gordon stuff.

Lee Loughnane: Well, here’s what

happened. I got the Claude Gordon books and then I just started practicing them and I would play like a few pages.

And then I called Paul at one point and I told him what I was doing and he said, well, you might not wanna quite do it that way I could show you a couple things if you come over to the house. So then I started, in fact, taking lessons from ’em and doing the routines and a metronome.

And you know, if you can’t play it at this speed, take it down three clicks. And then practice that for, you know, one, two, possibly three days, and then take it up a click,

or even try the, you know, up a click the very next day.

And if you can make that, you can take it up another click the next day. And when you get to the point where you can’t play it, you take it down three clicks again. That’s how you start getting more speed. And it, it doesn’t come overnight. The evenness doesn’t come unless you work at it. People ask me, what should I tell young kids how they should practice and stuff?

Well, unfortunately, you have to tell ’em to practice because it doesn’t work unless you do. And every trumpet player and brass player on the planet knows that if you don’t practice, it gets worse, not better. It, I mean, you only stay status quo for a couple of days before you notice it for sure. And the next day, everybody else notices it Pretty soon after that.

John Snell: Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: Like I think it was Sego that said that.

Right.

John Snell: Uh, and I’m sure I’ll hack it up. It’s something like you miss one day, you notice the second day the audience notices

Lee Loughnane: everyone else

John Snell: everyone else does.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah.

Right.

John Snell: Well that’s so, that’s amazing. So you had that practice bug early on, and

Lee Loughnane: Yes. And I still do it now. In fact, I feel better when I practice.

John Snell: even when you’re off the road,

Lee Loughnane: Oh yeah. Every day, no matter on the road, off the road, I get up and I’ll have a cup of coffee and I start warming up. And if, you know, I can get up in a bad mood and playing the trumpet makes me feel better. And I don’t know what the hell that is, but it works. You know?

John Snell: I should try that. I gotta try that tomorrow.

Lee Loughnane: Or get up, have somebody piss you off and

John Snell: All right. Get out the trumpet, start playing Chicago. Really like you turned the model around from a horn section being, you know, the three or four players

sitting in the back dancing or playing cool things to being at the forefront. I mean, was that a conscious decision?

Lee Loughnane: Yes. Yes. It was. It was, uh, to play lead lines in and out of the vocals. So we became an integral part of the song, as important as the vocal, really without the brass. In some of our tunes it would sound quite

different ’cause there would be no brass. And we, we became a signature, uh, one of the signatures of the band.

John Snell: Yeah. And when we see you guys, you go to a Chicago concert, I mean, you’ll have the singer up front sometimes, or sometimes they’re in the back by the keyboards, but the horns are up front,

Lee Loughnane: Uh, we’re probably the only band that the horns are upfront a lot.

John Snell: no place to hide.

Lee Loughnane: No place to hide. You’re right out there.

John Snell: Do you, do you ever wish, sometimes you can go stand in the back and just kind of play your notes?

Lee Loughnane: No, I like what we’re

John Snell: You like being out there?

Lee Loughnane: I like being out. I just like playing on stage for people.

And I had to learn how to be comfortable with that because I wasn’t always comfortable. I was always like, I don’t know if I’m good enough, if it’s, you know, and every time I’d make a mistake, I go, Jesus.

And then after I stopped drinking, I realized that I don’t have to be perfect every time. And I stopped trying to be perfect. And I’m a lot more on the money most of the time. And I think I was on the money most of the time back then, but I never gave myself credit for it.

John Snell: Yeah. Isn’t, isn’t that funny how the mind works, right?

Lee Loughnane: it really is. Yeah.

John Snell: Yeah. So I, I’ve brought up, does anyone really know what time it is? I, do you know how many times you’ve played that solo or do you have a guess?

Lee Loughnane: Oh, quite a few. Uh, let’s see. So the 69, so we’re, we’re talking what, 57 years?

John Snell: Do you remember recording that solo?

Lee Loughnane: Oh yeah. You know, and I asked if it was good enough, they went, yeah, it’ll work that really, pretty much. That’s what he said.

John Snell: Did you have it figured out before or did you just put it down?

Lee Loughnane: I put it down, I just put it down

and I sort of got stuck at the top. And you know, I went, I, I got up to the, what am I gonna do now? And that was it. And I went, is that good enough? And yeah, it’ll work.

John Snell: That’s it.

Lee Loughnane: Everybody in the world is gonna hear that now.

John Snell: And, and has, and,

Lee Loughnane: Right?

John Snell: and so it’s not, I don’t know how many times have you played that solo, but how many cover bands have played that

Lee Loughnane: Quite a few.

John Snell: I, I played that, uh, in fact my first, I had two introductions to Chicago. One was my high school band director. We had a rock band in our high school, which was kind of rare for the time.

And then, uh, we did, I think 25 or six to four in that band.

But actually a year or two before that, one of my best friends was a bass player and he, he wanted to do, does anyone really know what time it is for the school talent show? And he had his own little band, but he wanted someone to come in and play the, the trumpet solo.

And I was like, what? I don’t, I don’t Chicago. I thought that was a city,

Lee Loughnane: Oh yeah. Right.

John Snell: what is this solo? And then I had to sit and write it out and figure it out. And

Lee Loughnane: All right. There you go.

John Snell: I was like, what is this stuff? What? I’ve never heard it before.

Lee Loughnane: What, how old were you then?

John Snell: Oh, I mean I had to have been 13, I think. 13 or 14. And

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. It’s amazing, isn’t

John Snell: then he is like, you gotta listen to this stuff.

You know? There’s any point. I remember putting on the album and listening. I was like, wow, I didn’t know you could do that on, you know, that was it.

Lee Loughnane: Right,

John Snell: So, so cool. So cool. So the Christmas album.

Lee Loughnane: Ah, yeah. Those are always fun. Yeah.

John Snell: Yeah. How did that come around? Like, uh, was it just the label said, Hey, you guys need to do a Christmas album,

Lee Loughnane: Uh, I think we finally decided to do one, and it happened to be in our 25th year and we called it Chicago 25. And it was when we had gotten our masters back, we had put in our contract, our initial contract with, uh, CBS Sony, or it was before Sony, even if it was CBS, that after 25 years, the masters will come back to the artist and it was like a hundred dollars a, a master or something like that.

And, uh, I’m, I’m sure every lawyer who looked at that paper went 25 years. Sure, no problem. And then signed it without even thinking about 25 years. They’ll be lucky if they’re together two years from now,

five years at the most. Right. So 58 years didn’t enter their mind. We’ve done the 25 years twice already. We’re, you know, we can’t go that much further because we’re only gonna last so long. I mean, how, how long could you run around like a 20-year-old on the road?

John Snell: I don’t know. I mean, you’re giving a Mick Jagger a run for his money

Lee Loughnane: Well, I’m not running around like him.

John Snell: and Doc, doc sever inlet.

Lee Loughnane: Doc is doing great. Doc is, a great player.

John Snell: yeah.

He’s 97, I think now.

Lee Loughnane: Is he 97? He

John Snell: 96,

Lee Loughnane: us right from the beginning. We got fired from, there was a club in LA called The Factory.

All the hip people, the rock stars, artists and actors would go there for dinner. And then there was a, a live band that would play there too. So we would start when they were still doing their dinner or dessert or whatever it was. But at some point they were still eating. So we played like a soft set. We’d played like Misty and uh, Moonlight in Vermont and stuff like that.

And inevitably. Well, maybe not inevitably, but one of the actors that was sitting close to the band said it was too loud and wanted us fired as a result.

And I don’t know if this was the second or third time and Doc happened to be there that night, I think, uh, Diana Ross was there and she loved what she heard from us and so did Doc. In fact, he said, this is the kinda stuff that I’d been wanting to do,

uh, you know, this fusion type stuff. So it was, he said, don’t stop whatever you do,

even though, even if you get fired.

And we did. We

got fired from the Yeah, I mean, the same reason you get fired from the club in the original days

because you played an original song and they told you not to, so you got fired,

John Snell: Yeah, yeah.

Lee Loughnane: And then when they came back to see us after we became hits, we threw ’em out of their dressing room.

John Snell: Really

Lee Loughnane: I know these guys, they played my cook.

Get outta here.

John Snell: that’s man, and it’s interesting ’cause like some of doc’s later stuff, what he got into the fusion sounds like it was inspired by you guys.

Lee Loughnane: It could be,

John Snell: Yeah. Zebra zeon, I’m not know if I’m pronouncing it correctly. Stuff he did in the late seventies, early eighties. You know,

Lee Loughnane: it was called Zebra.

John Snell: Zeon, I think was the name of the group. Z uh, X-E-B-R-O-N.

Yeah,

Lee Loughnane: I just saw one a couple days ago and I think he was on, uh, got one of the old talk shows.

John Snell: yeah, yeah. So we had, uh, you know, coincidentally this morning, uh, we, we do a trombone podcast and we had, uh, Nick Lane on.

Lee Loughnane: uh, Nick

was on. Yeah. Yeah.

John Snell: on, so, you know, he subs with you guys

and he, he said, and this is, I think it’s hysterical, he was in the recording studio with Maynard Ferguson, and you guys were in the next studio over and ended up doing a collaboration.

You remember that? I think, was it like street player? I think you had Maynard on.

Lee Loughnane: play. Oh yeah.

Yeah,

Two octaves higher than me.

And he, yeah,

so he played the solo and it was unbelievable. And that was at Criteria Studios, the Be Gees studio.

John Snell: yeah. That, that was just completely coincidental, right? You just happened to be in there and you just see Maynard and say, Hey, do you wanna come over and, and play some notes?

Lee Loughnane: pretty much. And the same thing with the Be Gees. We played on, uh, the intro at B blah blah B

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: Too much heaven or

Is that what it’s called? Yeah. But we just did the intro and we were done and they were amazed that we played in tune. What did you expect?

We’d come in and be horrible, but we had a stroke tuner, checking to see that every note was in tune and we like stopped it right in the center, eh?

John Snell: Wow. Back, back when you actually had to do that, you couldn’t have the, uh, you couldn’t fix it in post.

Lee Loughnane: No, no fixing, no fixing vocally or uh, instrumentally. You gotta hit it.

John Snell: So speaking of that, I mean, you’ve guys have recorded over decades, like how has technology changed how you guys record, and the flip side of that, how do you still keep that quintessential Chicago sound?

Lee Loughnane: Well probably ’cause we know what it sounded like before and Jimmy still does most of the writing. I do some of the writing

and, you know, we just learned by continually doing it. You know, like if you hear Beatles albums one after another after another, they sound different, but you can tell who it

is right away.

There’s a signature, there’s a style that is undeniable. And I think that’s what we have that goes along with any successful band. They, there’s a, a sound that goes along with it that no one else has quite the same.

John Snell: Do you prefer the one way or the other in terms of recording to tape like the old days or,

Lee Loughnane: Oh, it doesn’t matter. As long as you get it down there, it can sound great because, uh, digital recording, or at least CDs got a bad rap initially because the record companies, they wanted to have everything go immediately to a CD so they could start selling it again right away.

And they overlooked the fact that in order to make a CD sound good, you have to EQ it more, which became the newly mastered or remastered. Remastered. What does that mean? It means like we’re doing it the right way for the first time, well, 15 years later,

but that’s why the CDs got a bad rap because they, they used the same masters to make those CDs as they did for the vinyl. And you know, if you, if you use the amount of EQ on a CD that you use on the record, those needles would be flopping all over the place. Right. There’s no way you could handle it. So, and that’s why they had to roll off the base and if, and the high end and just sort of squash everything

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: And so the vinyl, when you listen to it now, you hear what you used to hear and you go, boy, that doesn’t sound quite as open as it used to, you know? But the CDs do.

The

CDs can make it sound like you just recorded it yesterday and it’s 50 years old.

John Snell: the full spectrum. That’s, yeah. Wow. And I, so I want to jump back. I’m kind of going back and forth here ’cause I’m kind of going chronologically, but also getting in trumpet stuff.

Lee Loughnane: I’m probably doing it too. I’m forcing you to do it.

John Snell: Uh, I wanna jump back to the Claude Gordon stuff. ’cause we had, we had talked about the exercise stuff you’re doing, but then you also mentioned you switched over to the CG mal feast and you did played a CG horn too, right? The large

Lee Loughnane: Yes. Yes. The large bore with the second valve slide going out like the besson.

John Snell: Yeah. Yeah. Are you still using that today? Its the same

Lee Loughnane: I am, same horn. I

have two of them. And I just recently, now that you guys are selling the Shires,

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: I went to Milano music store in, uh, Mesa.

John Snell: Yeah. Shout out to Josh and all those guys there.

Lee Loughnane: They’re working on one of my Claude Gordon’s right now. They,

John Snell: Oh, great.

Lee Loughnane: I, uh, put a couple dents in it, so having the dents taken out and acid wash all of this stuff, right.

John Snell: Get the funk out or, well, not some of the funk. You wanna keep the good funk in.

Lee Loughnane: gotta keep some funk in, right.

John Snell: So, with the touring, do you have your personal horn or do you have horns and,

Lee Loughnane: I just carry my, uh, Claude Gordon horn and that’s

1. That comes with me everywhere I go, every airplane, every bus, every, every, vehicle.

John Snell: Do you have a backup in case something goes wrong on

Lee Loughnane: Uh, No.

No. ’cause I make sure that nothing goes wrong.

John Snell: it’s there. Amazing.

Lee Loughnane: And you know, if a couple dents get in the other horns, you can take that out. I’m, I’m finally that four valve gets in b flat flu horn that I used, uh, all the way through the seventies.

I finally blew out the compression of the second valve as we were playing BBI looked down the, the second valve slide was on the stage, and thank god we had a rug, or that would’ve been dented too, but I had to pull it up and, and, and like hold it in place while I was playing.

John Snell: How funny. So, which, what’s great you had, that was my anticipated my next question. ’cause they’re also known for your flugel horn plane and using that in the band. So it’s, it was a Gatson four valve you’ve used this whole time.

Lee Loughnane: Yes. And that was exactly why I went to Milanos to get another four valve. And they had some horns that I was looking at that they were, you know, the, the company of course was saying, Hey, these are the best, these are great. And I I tried ’em and I went, this, it’s not happening.

You got any others?

I tried the Shire and then I went to, there was a french horn.

John Snell: Quais. Yeah. Yeah. Steve recently started using the Quais.

Lee Loughnane: I have my trumpet case that has a, a piccolo trumpet, which I’m gonna take out now ’cause we only play uh uh baby. What a big surprise. Like every 10 years. So I’m thinking we’re not gonna be playing that anytime soon. And I’m taking the piccolo out and that’s a Getson four valve piccolo that has got very little playing in.

And I have a studio on the other side of town here. And I will be recording with it and uh, I’m gonna trade out the getson for the French horn.

John Snell: Nice. The trois.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. the COIs

John Snell: So with what, 37 or 38 albums?

Lee Loughnane: 38 I

John Snell: 38 yeah. How often do you pull out old charts? Or do you basically stick to your standard kind of rep?

Lee Loughnane: Stick to the standard.

Yeah,

You mean older songs and you know, put ’em into the set.

John Snell: yeah. Older songs are, it’s like BSides and things that you know, the diehard fans would wanna hear, but maybe no one else has ever heard.

Lee Loughnane: Exactly. And we tried that. We’ve tried every configuration under the sun through

the years, through the decades, and we have pretty much played a set that works every night. And even when we play it the same thing. Every year for the most part. We might take a couple of those songs and place them differently in the set, but it has a, a progression to it that just works

and it works every night. And it’s amazing. And, you know, I can, I you start thinking, are we getting away with this? You’re not getting away with anything. It just sounds good.

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: And, uh, pace wise it’s good. Everything about it works yet. We still try to change things around a little bit and when we do, we find out why that song got cut out the last time we tried to do it. You know what I mean?

’cause people will get up and you can actually, or especially our manager who was like our audience member when he comes to the shows, he’ll go, you know, they got up and uh, they were going to the bathroom popcorn, they were talking, I mean, you know what I mean? And he’ll be out there for our two hour show and people are like riveted with what we’re doing.

John Snell: Mm-hmm.

Lee Loughnane: And we’re the last ones to know what actually works. We love playing the songs and we can do all of that, but we can’t tell really what the audience reaction is. We can only hear what we’re doing.

John Snell: Yeah, that’s a great advice, especially musicians that interact with each other on stage and what’s not necessarily fun to play or it is fun to play and you enjoy playing with the rest of the group, and then the audience may have a completely different,

Lee Loughnane: Exactly. It doesn’t cut through

with them. Uh, how come they’re doing that one? You know, something like that. Whatever it is.

John Snell: The last time I saw you guys, it was actually with Earth, wind and Fire at the Greek theater

Lee Loughnane: Yeah.

John Snell: Man. Was that like 2004? There’s a DVD of that one?

Lee Loughnane: That was 2004. That was the first time we had played with them,

John Snell: Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: and it took our manager four years to convince, uh.

John Snell: The promoters or the

Lee Loughnane: Promoters. Thank you. Yeah. I’ll think I, you know, I’m old. I can’t think of words on, it took them four years to convince them that it might work and they still were skeptical until it worked and then they actually gave him credit for about, you know, six months to a year that, that it was his idea.

John Snell: And you guys, and you guys have done that a few times, including most recently.

Lee Loughnane: We have done it, I think five times now through the years,

John Snell: So much fun.

Lee Loughnane: this is 2024 was the last time we played in two thou, so 20 years. Over a period of 20 years we played with them five times, five tours. Yeah. It’s amazing.

John Snell: Can’t think of two more fun groups and, and it looks like you guys are having fun on stage,

Lee Loughnane: It’s great.

John Snell: honestly. Looks like you guys are having fun,

Lee Loughnane: Well, I mean, it, it’s an act, but we love playing the music and

we love playing their music and they love playing our music with us and you know, and vice versa. So I think it could be a great Super Bowl show, but so far we haven’t been chosen, you know, and they go, are you kidding? Those guys are still together.

You

John Snell: Well, we’ll start a write in campaign. We’ll start.

Lee Loughnane: let’s try,

John Snell: I’d love to see that. I’d love

Lee Loughnane: I think it would work. I really do.

You could fly us all in from the top of the building, right?

John Snell: I, with, with all the, all, all the years on the road, you, there’s gotta be some sort of story or something. Flight delays or chaos. Well, I, I’m sure a lot of ’em we can’t tell on the internet, but

Lee Loughnane: No, you can’t tell anywhere everybody get in trouble. But we did, uh, two King, hes, it was somewhere in the Midwest in Michigan. We had to fly like, uh, a couple hundred miles or something. And, and I, uh, I forget why we had to take the planes, but there was a time restriction

and, uh, two King Airs brand new Rolls Royce engines, one of the engines blew out just after takeoff. And I was sitting at the window and watched it blow,

and it started the, you see this, the flames coming out. I looked up in the cockpit and they pushed the, uh, the feather and it, uh, put the fire out. He turned the plane around and he said, you know, I just came back from, from Vietnam and I’m not gonna die here. And

John Snell: Wow.

Lee Loughnane: he pulled it in and we landed. I got on the next plane and we flew to the gig and a, a couple of the guys got in cars and drove to the next gig instead,

John Snell: I was gonna say, I couldn’t even imagine getting on a plane after that, experiencing something like that.

Lee Loughnane: right after that. Well, you know what, I looked at my hand. I pulled up my hand as we were landing and just to see if I was, you know, like, uh, blazing Saddles. I shoot with this one. Right. You know, it was, but it was steady. And I went, that’s pretty interesting. I think I trust the guy he’s gonna, he’s gonna keep us alive,

you know?

John Snell: Wow. Well, I didn’t, I didn’t expect that kind of story. I was gonna say like, you know, the band was late or something like that, but,

Lee Loughnane: Well, we’ve been late. We, we played a gig in, before any deals. We played, uh, Sioux Falls, South Dakota,

and uh, Terry and I were driving the van with all our equipment in it. The organ and all of that stuff. And our, our speakers as they, as they were at the time, and we drove past the club and we realized the rest of the guys weren’t coming until the next day and we were supposed to open that night. So we were a day late for the show, and the owner let us off the hook. He didn’t care. He, it’s okay. We will open tomorrow night then. But that was like the grand opening of the Makamba Club in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and everything went off good. Terry and I got a hotel, waited for the guys to come in.

We went over and played the gig and moved on to the next one, whatever that was. I forget how many nights we played there, but

it worked.

John Snell: Hey, and I, I was thinking about this, your tenure, uh, and especially with you and Jimmy together. I know Walt retired a few years ago, but so you had the, the original three horns for 40, 50 years. Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. Longer than any horn section in the history of music.

John Snell: And, and you think about, well, I was like, what’s in the water in Chicago when you had Bud Seth and Jay Friedman,

Lee Loughnane: Oh

John Snell: know, those guys playing

Lee Loughnane: what hurts if I, I, I put down the, you know, I remember pictures at an exhibition

when he would do the promenade all the way through. I mean, I’ve heard different recordings of it, but the Chicago Symphony was, for me, was always that great big brass sound and,

uh, bud Sitz was what he did like 55 years as the, as the principal trumpet.

John Snell: Yeah. Yeah. And Jay Friedman on trombone just retired, I think last year, and he’s like 60 years maybe I think of someone

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. When we played with the Chicago Symphony, which was orgasmic for me,

John Snell: I, because you got to play

Lee Loughnane: oh my, oh my God. It was so, and they hit some of those chords and they still make those chords sound the same. It’s like, you know, we talk about the band sounding the same or having some sort of, uh, textural sound about them.

The Chicago Symphony has that,

and you know, they play certain chords. You go, oh man, that’s so nice.

And Jay Friedman took me aside and said, you know, you could play with us if you’d like. And I’m going, man, sure. I could, you know, a little more practice.

John Snell: You could have sat in with this

Lee Loughnane: I could, I could have said, I think the other guys would’ve gone, get outta here, kid.

Come on,

John Snell: Uh,

Lee Loughnane: outta here, move it along.

John Snell: uh, any, any, any other collaborations through your years that, uh, you recall fondly?

Lee Loughnane: We played with, uh,

John Snell: Bill RAs?

Lee Loughnane: bill RAs,

the, that big band for our big band album,

and that was great playing with, and Wayne was in that band, Wayne Bergeron and, uh, God, I can’t remember the other guy’s names right now offhand, but it was a, it was a great band to play with and, uh, added to that album. And I, you know, I, when you re remind me of this, it’s like I had forgotten we even did all that stuff.

It’s like we’ve had 50 lives. I. Along with the 50 years.

John Snell: I was gonna say, yeah, I mean, looking back at all of that, that’s

Lee Loughnane: So much fun.

John Snell: yeah. Uh, I mean, maybe seem like a dumb question, but would you do it again if you had the chance?

Lee Loughnane: My life.

John Snell: Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: Oh God, yeah. Yeah. I mean, how I lived through all the stuff that I’ve put my body through is

a miraculous in itself. So I must be here for a reason and I’m trying to figure out what that is.

John Snell: Well to, to share the stories.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah, exactly right.

John Snell: Anything you would change going back if you had to do it over again?

Lee Loughnane: I don’t think so. I don’t think so. ’cause I, you know, every time I got married I thought it was for life and I was going to stay with it. But, uh, you know, inevitably. I was gone too long. The career should have been over, and obviously most careers don’t last anywhere near as long as ours,

but it happened the way it was supposed to. I have relationships with most of my children and now hopefully that will get different years. I have different amounts of children that speak to me,

but

John Snell: your honesty and what you guys were dedicated into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

among all the many other, I mean, I was going through the, the accolades for the band.

Lee Loughnane: and that was actually perfect timing too, because that was 25 years after the first album, the first hit album that you are eligible.

Right. And I think it took another 20 or 25 years, so it was like our 50th anniversary by the time we finally went in, wasn’t it?

John Snell: It’s something like that. Yeah.

Lee Loughnane: sure. But that was perfect time.

’cause it was the 50th year. I mean it was a, you know, what kind of press do you need? Hey, we got the award looks at it. Oh my God. We’re still doing it, you know?

John Snell: And, and hopefully they, they, they figure out how to label you this time. Unlike with your first album.

Lee Loughnane: right. Those jerks over in the corner there. That’s,

John Snell: Dunno where to put up. Absolutely. Amazing. Uh, Leah, we could chat all day and I, and know, and you’re hitting the road next week, right? You guys? I, I saw the schedule. You guys are in Vegas and then going back to it.

Lee Loughnane: Las Vegas the 28th first show

John Snell: Amazing. Amazing.

Lee Loughnane: and then probably a hundred shows after that. ’cause I said 93

for this year already. But I know Peter and our booking agent are planning shows for October and November. We’ll have December off. So ho, ho, ho.

John Snell: Any signs of going back into the studio again?

Lee Loughnane: I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m, I’m doing some things at my studio.

I

don’t know if they’ll be on a Chicago album or just something that I put out on my

John Snell: Really working on your own charts.

Lee Loughnane: Yeah. And I’m doing arrangements of other people’s tunes, other covers, and a couple of original songs. So we’ll see how it goes together in what I finally come up with. But it’s getting closer. I keep going on the road, so I don’t have as much time to work on it.

John Snell: I was gonna say, it’s amazing you have time to do your own project with how much you guys are, are playing.

Lee Loughnane: Well, I had to build my own studio to do it.

John Snell: Well, keep me in the loop ’cause I have you back on and talk about that project when it’s done.

Lee Loughnane: Sounds good.

John Snell: That sounds exciting. So obviously Chicago, you, you guys have the website. You can find the touring and all that stuff. And uh, yeah man, this is like so cool. I wish we could do this in person, uh, but we can, maybe we can do the follow up in person and, uh, sit in the same room together.

I’d, uh, absolutely appreciate it. Lee, before I let you go, if you could leave our listeners with one last piece of advice that you would consider your best piece of advice, what would that be?

Lee Loughnane: Is this musicians I’m talking to?

John Snell: This, well, I mean, I, I, I don’t know very many non-Trump players that could listen to us talk about valve oil and heavy valve caps and boar size.

Lee Loughnane: LCAs

fast. Hey.

John Snell: But actually, you know, surprised I, we do have, a lot of people are just interested in, obviously you’re with the Chicago, I’m sure there’ll be people that see your name and want to hear about the band and stuff. So

it does. Long story short, it’s your piece of advice. It could be about anything. It could be about trumpet plane, it could be about life, it could be about business.

Could be.

Lee Loughnane: Well, if you enjoy what you’re doing. And expect to get a lot of negativity. Try not to let the negativity bother you and just keep going. If you enjoy what you’re playing and who you’re playing it with, don’t stop. Keep going forward and practice always works. It

John Snell: That’s it,

man. Lee, pleasure having you on the podcast and can’t wait to see you at the at the next concert.

Lee Loughnane: Alright, take it easy, John. It’s been fun.

John Snell: Well, what an honor it was to have Lee on the podcast. I was fortunate enough to catch him in between tours. Chicago is the band, that put horns in the forefront of rock and roll music and pop music. You know, they weren’t just the, three or four players standing in the back playing, you know, little fills and hits and things like that.

They were the melodic instruments just as important, if not more so than the vocals. And, where would we be today as horn players without their contributions, and then of course, their writing styles and things like that, that. Uh, was, uh, genre defining, as we talked about, where in the record store do you file the band?

Chicago. so huge thank you to Lee. What an icon, what a legendary trumpet player. And I love the fact that even though he’s played in the same band for 60 years, almost 60 years, and basically knows what he’s gonna play from night to night, he still is a practicer. He’s still dedicated to the craft, trying to make himself sound better, play better, figure things out.

And you could hear that, through the course of the interview. We’ll have the links to find Chicago, the band in the description and in the show notes of this episode. And I highly recommend going and hearing them live. there’s an energy, as great as the albums are, there’s an energy they put out, in live performances that is incredible and the fact that they’re.

No spring chickens anymore, that they’ve literally been doing this for the last 58 years, as of last February. And they’re still sounding good. They’re still looking good on stage. They’re giving Mick Jagger a run for his money. So congratulations to Lee and to the band for such a, a long tenure, on top of the charts and, making, fans around the world.

I hope you can go see the band and even better if they’re, touring with Earth, wind, and Fire. ’cause then you get two legendary acts playing together. That’s it for this episode. Thank you for listening. Of course. I always appreciate that five star review. and any comments you can leave helps us be visible for the next.

Trumpet players or brass players, and we even have an OBO player that listens. I heard since this last episode, an OBO player reached out and said love listening to this podcast and hearing the stories. so hit that five star review. Send us your suggestions. As I mentioned, we have Kenny Rampton coming up.

we have, Eric Baker, many of you know him as the viral trumpeter, trumpets micd up. EB Trumpet on Instagram and TikTok. and also co-principal trumpet of the West Texas Symphony. Also a fabulous player in his own right, but known to the next generation primarily for his hysterical, Instagram and TikTok videos.

Great interview coming up. Uh, Kenny Rampton, as I mentioned, Juvan Smith. Uh, fabulous trumpet player from Michael Blas Band coming up. Ashley Hall Teague coming up. fabulous soloist. first female member of the Canadian Brass, for a while. And also, uh, coach. Not just a, a life coach, performance coach, but also a fabulous trumpet player.

Ashley will be on a future episode here,

so Don’t miss any of the episodes. And if you’ve noticed, we are also getting back on schedule after kind of a slow last year. We are getting back to posting a podcast twice a month on the first and third Wednesdays. So look for those and, so many more trumpet players out there we want to listen to.

So with that, let’s go out and make some music.