Angel Subero – Trombone Interview

Welcome to the show notes for Episode #18 of the Trombone Corner podcast. This episode features Venezuelan Trombonist Angel Subero

Listen to or download the episode below:

About Angel Subero

Angel Subero is a Venezuelan trombonist who attended the Conservatorio Itinerante in Caracas, Venezuela, where he studied with the legendary Michel Becquet. After coming to the United States in 2001, he attended  Boston Conservatory, where he studied with Lawrence Isaacson, and New England Conservatory of Music, where he studied with Douglas Yeo. He also studied with John Rojak at the Aspen Music Festival.

Subero has performed with numerous orchestras, including the Boston Symphony Orchestra, Boston Pops Esplanade Orchestra, Boston Ballet, Pittsburgh Symphony, American Composers Orchestra, the Venezuela Symphony, Simon Bolivar Symphony, and the Boston Modern Orchestra Project, to name a few. He has worked with such conductors as John Williams, Seiji Ozawa, Kurt Masur, Sir Colin Davis, Christoph von Dohnanyi, Keith Lockhart, and Robert Spano, among many others.

In the realms of jazz, Latin and commercial music, Subero has appeared with artists such as Bob Brookmeyer, Aretha Franklin, Slide Hampton, Jim McNeely, Claudio Roditi, Danilo Perez, Chris Botti, and many more.

Angel Subero Links

Podcast Credits

Podcast Transcript

[0:00:12] John Snell: Welcome to the Trombone Corner podcast where we feature interviews with trombonists from all over the globe. It’s great to have you join us as we talk all things trombone brought to you by The Brass Ark and Bob Reeves Brass. I’m your host, John Snell from Bob Reeves Brass. And joining me today is Noah Gladstone of The Brass Ark. Today’s special guest is Angel Subero. We’ll get to on Angel’s interview after a word from our sponsor and some trombone news.


[0:00:43] Noah Gladstone: Hello, loyal listeners. This is Noah Gladstone. I founded the Brass Ark in 2010 to celebrate the love and passion for legendary brass craftsmanship. I wanted to share my joy for the best gear and bring it to the forefront of musicians, minds through the development and cultivation of modern equipment with roots firmly established in the classic designs of the vintage masters, Bob Reeves Brass is a world renowned mouthpiece maker of the highest quality and has been handcrafting mouthpieces for professional trumpet players for over 50 years together we are excited to bring a premium line of handcrafted mouthpieces to the trombone community inspired by rare and vintage classics and modernized for the needs of today’s musician models are available in a variety of sizes from small and large tenor bass, trombone euphonium as well. Custom sizes. We also have artist models available as used by David Rejano, Jay Friedman and Charlie Vernon. Visit Brass Ark dot com or trombone mouthpiece dot com for more information and remember to follow us on instagram at the Brass Ark and at bob Reeves Brass back to you, john


[0:01:45] John Snell: Well, thank you as always, Noah, for that wonderful ad read. You keep getting better every episode. 


[0:01:50] Noah Gladstone: You spot all the little nuances and that. No, I’m just kidding. It’s the same recording every time. But we should rerecord it just because, uh, you know, I know, I know you love, I know how you love. I say some of that stuff.


[0:02:02] John Snell: With chatGPT we can, we can rewrite it as uh, any way we want. So maybe we’ll do that


[0:02:08] Noah Gladstone: GPT like give us a nice intro. OK. No problem in the style Noah Gladstone


[0:02:13] John Snell: Exactly. We have a wonderful guest today. So we’ll get to Angel’s interview here here in a moment. There’s a couple of things. No one I want to, um, talk to you about uh, first things first. I’ll kick this off. I mentioned this last episode but the Reeves Brass Ark mouthpieces will have, have a booth at the, uh ITF 2023 festival in Salt Lake City. The dates of that are July 12th to 15th. So we hope to see you there. Uh, we’ll have the full range of, uh, small shank, you know, large Shank bass trombone, artist models in our line. Uh, Noah. Are you gonna bring anything?


[0:02:47] Noah Gladstone: Yeah, I’ll be there and, you know, we would love to see all of our listeners, our loyal listeners, uh, coming out and, and connecting with us in person is always really, really fun. I am planning on bringing uh the Marcus Lechter Baby Fuchs Model, which we’ve finally just finished after gosh, about seven year project. Uh those Fuchs bones are, are absolutely unbelievable. Um Marcus was somehow able to capture the DNA of my 1916 Conn Fuchs base and make a modern version that sounds pretty much indistinguishable, feels indistinguishable uh but works in a modern professional setting. Amazing instrument. I’m gonna bring my personal one there for everyone to try. Granted it’ll be probably two or three years before the next batch is available. But uh it’s a beautiful, wonderful, spectacular instrument to see in person. And I hope uh a lot of our bass trombone friends and tenor trombone friends and alto trombone friends uh will pop by and scope it out.


[0:03:44] John Snell: Awesome. The Baby Fuchs. Baby Fuchs, lovely and anything cool in the shop that you got going on.


[0:03:51] Noah Gladstone: Um Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of really new stuff. I’m working on a web update right now. So that’ll that’ll be there pretty soon. I was in Boston for a week. So, apologies for everybody waiting on shipping stuff. But I was uh as, as will mention uh playing the Serpent with the Handel Society on a Mendelsohn symphony uh that we did a period performance. And uh let me tell you, uh I really appreciate how good the trombone is after spending a week on the serpent, uh pretty modern marvel by Renaissance standards, the trombone. So, uh no, uh no doubt why it is ubiquitous in the Renaissance and has survived 500 years in its original form to uh how we have it now. So, uh a humbling and uh exciting experience last week. So, uh getting back into the routine of the shop and, you know, shipping stuff out and answering emails and working on a web update with some really exciting new instruments and used instruments that are uh at the shop right now.


[0:04:44] John Snell: Awesome. Thanks for that, Noah. Um And one last thing I’d like to mention uh here at Bob Reeves Brass, we are now carrying a bunch of different uh mutes for trombone and bass trombone. Uh carrying is not the right word. I’d say curate. Curating is the better word kind of like what Noah does at The Brass Ark. You know, we’re not just carrying the uh easy to find mutes. We’re importing some mutes from uh Europe and from Japan. So if you’re in the market for some cool mutes. Uh Some of the ones we carry the Ullvein mutes out of Sweden. 


[0:05:14] Noah Gladstone: Awesome. Those are made, made famous by uh Dizzy, right? 


[0:05:17] John Snell: Yeah, Dizzy played those. Um But yeah, all the guys used to play them and then the, the factory, the family shut down the the company in 2000 and a trumpet player reinvigorated the brand. Uh They still had all the tooling and stuff sitting around in their house and in their, you know, outhouse out on the back. Um And 


[0:05:35] Noah Gladstone: I’ve seen those mutes and the quality is the quality is stunning on those mutes. It’s really, really, really special kind of heirloom mute in a sense. Uh 


[0:05:44] John Snell: Really, yeah, they have the Yeah. So there’s like the POPY cups and the, and the bop mutes. Um But uh Lasse Lindgren, who’s, who uh uh has started the brand again. He’s, he’s designing some new mutes as well. He’s got some cool funky mutes uh for Christian Lindbergh and uh some other guys. So we have those in stock. Uh We’ll have those at uh ITF. Uh The other things we have uh the Yupon Mutes, uh the uh they’re handcrafted in, in Yokohama in Japan. There’s uh some practice mutes and uh a really cool solo tone mute and a, a cup mute that a lot of guys in L A use.


[0:06:15] Noah Gladstone: I know amazing cut mute actually plays in tune. So pretty wild.


[0:06:19] John Snell: Yeah. Uh So we have those uh, we also have the Okura Practice mutes, which is a pretty fun little toy that we get from, uh, from Japan. So, all of those are on our, the Reeves website and they will be at our booth at I T F as well. So all the mute fanatics. Uh, you have a place to get some pretty fun mutes.


[0:06:35] Noah Gladstone:  You mute freaks out there. 


[0:06:38] John Snell: Mute freaks t-shirts.. 


[0:06:42] Noah Gladstone: Kiss me I’m a mute freak. Right.


[0:06:44] John Snell: There we go. You, you, you must have been in Boston for Saint Patrick’s Day. 


[0:06:51] Noah Gladstone: It’s on the mind. Exactly. All right. Well, so we get to the interview. This is a really, really special one. I’m, I’m really excited to share, uh, Angel’s interview with all of our listeners. This was one of the most fun interviews that we’ve done yet and just mind blowing stuff that he talks about. So with that, why don’t you take it away, John.


[0:07:06] John Snell: Hey, Noah, you’re gonna kill me. But there is one more piece of information we’re recording this after the fact when Noah and I originally recorded this interview, uh I’m excited to announce that we’ve set up an in-store appearance at J. Landress Brass in New York City. May 11th and 12th. That’s Thursday and Friday, uh May 11th and 12th, 2023. And we will be bringing, of course, all of the Reeves trumpet stuff, but we will be bringing the full line of Reeves Brass Ark trombone mouthpieces and bass trombone mouthpieces. So check the website and also social media and Instagram. All we’ll get all of the information out there to make sure, you know, when to show up and where to show up. And I believe if you want consultations, they’ll be doing that by appointment. Of course, we’re not going to turn anyone away who wants to come in and try mouthpieces. So we hope to see you there. May 11th, May 12th, 2023 at Josh Landress Shop in New York City. 


  1. This is it this time on to our interview with Angel. 


So today we’re welcoming Angel Subero to The Trombone Corner. Angel is a talented Venezuelan Trombonist with remarkable career spanning across various genres of music. He has performed with some of the world’s most renowned orchestras, conductors and musicians including the Boston Symphony orchestra, the Iceland Symphony Slide Hampton and Jethro Tull to name just a few. He has also been a featured soloist with the Boston Modern Orchestra Project which commissioned a trombone concerto written for him by Grammy nominated composer Michael Gandolfi. Angel’s musical journey began at the age of 13 when he started his studies in Caracas, Venezuela. He went on to study in the United States with Lawrence Isaacson, John Rojak, Doug Yeo, Claudio Rodditi and Jeff Galindo. Today Angel is a faculty member of the Boston Conservatory of Music, Long School of Music of Bard College and at the Atlantic Brass Quintet Seminar. He is also a regular guest professor at the State Foundation for the National System of Youth and Children’s Orchestras of Venezuela known as El Systema. Please join me in welcoming Angel Subero.


Joining us in the trombone corner today is Angel Subero. Thank you for joining us. You’re looking lovely today.!


[0:09:35] Angel Subero:  Oh, man. Thank you so much. Uh Thank you for having us. I’ve been looking forward to this for a little while, so I’m glad we finally uh figured it out.


[0:09:43] John Snell: Yeah. And uh yeah, happy to have you and co-hosted with me today is Noah. Noah. You’re looking lovely as well.


[0:09:49] Noah Gladstone: Well, thanks John. You look uh not too shabby yourself. How about that? You take a shower this morning.


[0:09:55] Angel Subero: Everybody is looking good, not


[0:09:57] John Snell:Not bad for a trombone podcast


[0:09:59] Noah Gladstone: on radio!


[0:10:01] Angel Subero: You gotta keep that. You gotta keep that bar low, you know, love it,


[0:10:07] John Snell: Love it. 


[0:10:09] Noah Gladstone: So why don’t we? Yeah, why don’t we get this started? SoAngel good to good to see you. Um So happy to have you here. Big fan of yours for a long time. Uh Why don’t you just give us a little bit of your, you know, your background, your, your biography, how you came to trombone playing and you know what you were doing before that?


[0:10:25] Angel Subero: Yeah. Well, I’m from Venezuela originally and uh I uh started playing in the little town, very little town where my parents grew up and, um, you know, uh, my, there are no musicians in my family but I just fell in love with music. And, uh I heard I started playing, which is, uh, the, it’s like a little bigger version of like a little bigger for folk music, uh, in Venezuela. And then I, I got into, you know, the brass stuff and then I fell in love with the, when I was about nine years old. And um then later moved to uh the city where I was born in the south of Venezuela and then ended up in Caracas and playing in orchestras and of course, involved with um you know, some, what I think, my generation and generation 10 years before we all been involved in, in, in, as you know, which is the big orchestra program in, from Venezuela. And uh so, you know, you there’s a lot of benefits that, that we all took advantage of it. You know, if you want to study, they provide a lot of instruction, teachers, instruments, all that stuff. And then I ended up playing an orchestra. And uh long story short, I went to the Aspen Music Festival and uh uh 1999 or 2000, I started with John Rojack who is uh one of my, my mentors, but also I got to meet uh one person that has been a very important person in my life. Not only he’s been my teacher, but he’s been a, a dear friend, Mr Larry Isacson. He was an excellent, uh, and, um, he doesn’t play anymore but he conducts and he’s very involved in the music education, um, at the Boston Conservatory. And, um, so I started with Larry for a couple of years at the Boston Conservatory, transferred to New England Conservatory and started with, uh, who was a former bass at the Boston Symphony and it’s just been, uh, I’ve been in Boston, I came to Boston and I, I loved it and I’ve been here for a long time and I’m a, I’m a Bostonian. If you, if you, if you might say, you know, Boston


[0:12:41] John Snell: Gotta get your Charlie Card


[0:12:42] Angel Subero: right. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right.


[0:12:45] John Snell: Uh Yeah. Uh I, I uh great uh summary of your, of your kind of progress there. I’d like to backtrack a little bit. Um And if you wouldn’t mind talking a little bit more about El Systema, I mean, here in L A we’re familiar with it because, you know, we’ve had Gustavo Dudamel for years. And so he’s starting similar things here in Los Angeles, but for those around the world that may not be familiar with what’s going on in Venezuela. Can you kind of elaborate on that, please? 


[0:13:09] Angel Subero: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a program, uh music program based, uh if it works more or less like an after school program because uh we don’t really have music programs in the schools in the public schools in Venezuela. The private schools. Yes. But if you’re not fortunate enough or you’re not, you know, you come from family or low income or more or less, you know, it’s, it’s very hard. So, uh, my Antonio Jose who left us a few years ago, but he left this amazing program and he created it 40 something years ago. And, uh, you know, uh, basically provides a place to, for people to go make music uh is entirely for free. You know, if you don’t have the chance to, to take, you know, theory is a place to go and meet people, you grew up together with people. There are people who, you know, uh in fact, speaking of, uh and uh I just started teaching at the um Youth Orchestra L A, you know, the yo, you know, so, you know, youth orchestra of Los Angeles, they have a summer program, orchestra program that uh uh real nights kids from, they make two orchestras last year was three orchestras, but two orchestras, 2, 12 to 15, 15 to 18. And the other orchestra was created from alumni who did the festival the first year they did it, I believe it was seven years ago. And it’s very similar to our system. And, you know, it’s uh it just making music, uh getting coaching, uh becoming familiar with the orchestral repertoire technique, all kinds of things, but it’s a lot of playing, playing, playing, playing, playing. And um you know, it’s huge in Venezuela because he’s given uh the opportunity to many people to just, uh see another. Well, it has elevated the status of being a musician for, for, for number one, you know, like in, in Venezuela you are a musician. It, it’s almost as cool as, uh, as being a, a sports player. I mean, obviously not that same amount of money, but


[0:15:08] John Snell: Not yet. Not yet, maybe one day.


[0:15:11] Angel Subero: Yes. But, um, but it’s very, it’s very cool. People respect it even if you are starting, if you just been playing for a month or two months, people go to the concerts and support the young artist because they know that in 10 years or five years or 10 years or 15 years, they might become, uh the next, you know, uh the next, uh you know, there’s with a bass player in the Berlin Philharmonic. I remember him playing soccer, you know, he was a kid and then it was only like eight years later. He’s in the Berlin Philharmonic. So there’s a lot of stories like that um around the planet especially now and, you know, I, I don’t want to get too into it, but, you know, especially now because of the economy and the financial hardship that my country is going through is, is very hard. So a lot of people have left just trying to look for a future. So there’s a lot of musicians out there everywhere. Uh But it’s a wonderful, it’s a wonderful program that is expanding and, and, you know, we just had a faculty retreat for the festival. I in New York, I just came back, you know, a day ago or so and uh three days just planning and trying to find different ways to make the festival uh bigger. What can we do to make a difference in the community? How can we reach out to um all these people who are not as um financially uh you know, low income, I don’t wanna say low income, just low income. But you know, people because, you know, old people that don’t have the, the resources to, to study music or take lessons or maybe buy an instrument and stuff. So there’s a lot of um you know, there’s a lot of people working really hard to, to, to make music a part, uh a bigger part of our, our community, you know, so there, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of work being done and so, yeah, I’m very proud of it and I’m proud of being a part of it. So it’s great.


[0:17:06] Noah Gladstone: Absolutely. It’s very noble cause um for sure, uh we have many players out here in L A, of course, that are also part of a couple of French born players out here. Uh Kaylet Torres, you know, some, some excellent players. So, you know, of course, so um she’s amazing. She is amazing. So it’s really great. To, to see that uh seed kind of permeate into, you know, the educational system, the culture system, the orchestra system, you know, and, and all of these wonderful personalities and musicians that have grown yourself included from, from that project, which is amazing.


[0:17:42] Angel Subero: Yeah. And one thing that I will say uh about which is the key, the very, very key of uh of that whole thing is that uh when it first started uh they were bringing different international artists like Empire Brass, for example, was uh an example that made a huge difference in uh in the brass culture in, in Venezuela. You know, like we all do the breathing gym before the breathing gym became a thing here in the States. We were doing breathing gym, you know, because uh in part Brass went there over 30 years ago or 40 years ago. Now, I can’t remember. But um everybody can take that took that or that legacy of brass playing uh buzzing breathing exercises is huge. So, but one of the things that happened is that the people, let’s say, for example, there are 20 people who took advantage of uh take classes with uh the paragra. So these 10 or 20 people will get sent to all the parts of the country that didn’t have the money or didn’t have the resources to come to the capital and see the para life. So they were, they were responsible for sharing all the knowledge that they learned so forth, right? So for example, you have a kid that, you know, one of the things that happens there a lot because there’s so many kids involved is that um if you have a kid that knows three scales, let’s say, or four scales and there’s one kid that’s starting, there’s a year or two younger or they might be the same age. So the kid hangs out, they all hang out together and the one that is a little more advanced teaches the other. So it’s like a, like a very positive circle that keeps spreading and that’s how sort of it works, you know. So everybody is involved in, in some kind of teaching since a very young age. 


[0:19:30] Noah Gladstone: So that technology transfer, you know, I mean, that’s kind of how cultures are, are built when you think about it. Um, you know, culture transfer, technology transfer, you know, having, having someone like that come over and then that, that just trickles down. Uh pretty cool. I think a lot of musical education um could learn from that. How about that? You know, I, I,


[0:19:53] Angel Subero: yeah, I, I, I don’t know, I, I think, uh there’s a beauty to get to learn from your mentors, right? Uh I had the fortune of having really, really exceptional teachers. Uh Larry Issacson, you know, it’s funny because, um I always joke around with my students and people I tell them like, you know, when I, I, you can’t find two more different people than Larry and I or do. And I, I mean, we are just total opposite spectrum of like when it comes down to uh uh human beings. But for me, it was very important, like, what I saw on those two gentlemen was that the, the so methodic, so structured, everything is very, you know, like, you know, and I felt like that was the biggest thing that I was missing in my, in my playing and in my life in general, but except especially in my playing. So I said I have to go, I took two lessons with Larry in, at Aspen. He was with the conducting academy. I was a fellow and I thought it was amazing just the way that he structured my lesson. And then I went to study with him and work great. And then when I went to study with was the same kind of thing. Uh I wanted to expect I, I just, you know, I always love freelancing. Uh I never had the big desire to, to get, get an orchestral job. Uh So because I love all, all different kinds of music and playing all different kinds of music. But I felt that it was important for me to learn the art of taking auditions, the art of uh learning excerpts how to prepare for an audition and all that, all of that business. So I decided that it was a good thing, uh, for me to go and study with Toyo who had a, you know, one spot in his studio open and, and I got to study with him for a couple of years and it was, um, it was fantastic. I mean, you know, it was, uh, an before and then after, and, you know, he, and I always joke around with that, you know, he said I know your story. Yes, I know. You know. But, uh it was a, he, he’s a, he’s a very, very important person in my life and my career.


[0:22:13] John Snell: Absolutely. That’s wonderful. Uh Can, can you talk a little bit? You mentioned the structure that you were getting from, from Larry? Uh Like, what did that look like? Was it in your lessons? Was it in your practicing routine or was it both?


[0:22:26] Angel Subero: It was a, a little bit of everything I always practice. I, I, I, I love playing, I love playing the trombone, like anybody who, who knows me even a little bit. You know, I go from playing a quintet from teaching eight hours to a salsa gig to a Latin gig, to a jazz gig to, you know, I don’t really care what it is. I’ll just go and do it, you know, I don’t think, you know, sometimes I worry, I worry a little bit about my jobs. I’m like, oh, well, yeah. All right, buddy. You gotta take it easy there. You know, I’ve been slowing down a little bit, you know, especially in the last few months. Just thinking about that, you know, I, I’m 43 now and things, you know, change a little bit and you start thinking about longevity in the whole thing that being said, I don’t really care. I just won’t play, I just, I just love making music. I just love playing music. Um, you know, I always practiced but there was something that, uh, one of the things that I learned from these guys, both, both of them, Larry and, um, and it just, there’s something about, uh, I, I guess I learned the relationship between consistent practicing and the structure practicing leads to a very consistent uh playing field. I don’t know how to explain that. But, you know, it was like, you know, Larry, you know, we had a pile of books and everything was methodical, everything was good and we did this and we did that and we went through this and we went through that and of course, so always bring questions and, uh, but it was always, there was a structure there, a direction that was going there. You know, we read, went through a lot of books, we went through a lot of different things, you know, basic stuff, nothing fancy. Just, you know, the, the usual thing, you know, I, I just, I always feel that um, the will has been invented already. So, you know, I don’t have the need to create any other thing because is a great book. The is a great book. Um Bordogni is a great book. Uh, you know, there’s a lot of books like that. Cora is there. It’s a fantastic book. You know, those are the books that I still play a big part in my, in my, in my practicing and my daily routine, the Blume and stuff like that. So just going through those books, got me help me get the consistency that I needed in order to become a more um well rounded, you know, cleaning out stuff on the side, you know, like I was, I was pretty raw when I was, you know, in my, you know, twenties or something, early twenties and then, you know, just, just getting all that very structured practicing and, and all that stuff, just going through all that basic stuff really uh provided that found a foundation that you need in order to be, uh have that finesse that you need uh as an orchestra player, chamber musician or solo player or whatever you wanna do. I, I just always feel like doesn’t matter what style you play, uh fundamentals are fundamentals and, and, and you gotta be able to play the acts otherwise, you know, nothing is happening, you know, like you, you can be the best whatever, you know, uh technician. But if you don’t have those fundamentals, if you can’t play uh a or if you can’t play a long tone, then if you can’t do that first page of the Remington, which is basic for me. Uh, then you’re done, you know, there’s no sound production, there’s no sound concept, there’s no foundation, there’s no core to the sound. There’s no, I don’t know. There’s a lot of stuff. It’s so, it’s so huge, you know,


[0:26:03] Noah Gladstone: I think that’s a really great point. And it’s interesting, you, you mentioned all those books, of course, you know, I think most trombone players that went to college for trombone performance are all familiar with those books because that’s kind of like the standard rep. But for me who also took a very similar path to you got in or, you know, audition shape, thought I would want to do an orchestra, audition all of these things. And then my career went in a lot of different paths. 


[0:26:28] Angel Subero: But you were, you were Serpent.


[0:26:30] Noah Gladstone: I was playing Serpent last week in Boston. Yes, I was, I was Serpent guy. Yeah, I, you know, we’ll talk, we can talk about that in a bit if you want. But, but back to the books and even, you know, to get in shape for that, you know, I’m practicing those same, a two books on my serpent because, you know, as a student, you have such an interesting relationship with those books, you know, that you, you play them a certain way, you’re told to play them a certain way. And as I get older and I’m sure it’s probably the same for you as I get older. At least my relationship with those books has changed quite a bit. Um, the way that I approach them, the way that I, I, I practice them and you’re always learning stuff, which is just a testament to those etudes, I think. Um, you know, the Blazhevich especially, which are, are, I think never really get old. You can always approach the Blaz in a different way uh in a different style and it, and it always gives you amazing results. So, uh you know, it’s just, it’s cool to hear you say that because I, I, I think a lot of very similar, similar wavelength.


[0:27:35] Angel Subero: No, no, I, I love, I love those books and uh, you know, I have, I think I, I have about 17 or 20 Bordogni’s memorized about, you know, 15 Koprasch, you know, 15 or 18 that I memorized the 1st 18 82. So, I mean, of course I went through all of them but you know, you know what?


[0:27:57] Noah Gladstone: Forget book three. Book three is terrible. We talk about book three. Just kidding. Book three. Oh man, that is, that is no fun. 


[0:28:12] Angel Subero: Number two is hard. But you know what one thing that I, that I did, you know, just as a, a, a lot of what I do, there’s a lot of endurance stuff that I have to do because, you know, I do a go from all different kinds of playing and playing for a long time daily. Uh I work a lot of my endurance and so one day I, I said, you know, uh, let me open this book that I haven’t seen in a while. The, the Blume, you know, 36 studies. So I decided to work on each one of them and this is during the pandemic, you know, where in the house, there’s nothing to do. So I just decided to go through all of them in one day and I got to 16 of them and I was done because I would practice them. I was practicing and clean and then perform them and then move to the next one. So I got through 35 of them in two days. I mean, it got to the point that I could, I was feeling I was having, you know, that was stupid, but in two days I went through 35 of them. And so, but it was very interesting to go back after so many years, work on them in detail, slow down everything, practice everything, clean up everything and then give it a go, you know, and then move on to the next one. There’s something and, and, you know, like you said, as you get older, um obviously things change, but also something changed. Not for the best, not for the better, but some of the things change for the for the best. Too, you know, like, I feel like there’s a lot of elements in my playing and especially here in my head, music making and confidence and just like the, the, I, I don’t know, there’s a lot of things now that I feel like it’s a lot easier to, uh, to, to, to make the music. Of course, there are elements that are not as easy, you know, but it’s a give and take and I, I, I, I think I like my playing a little more now than I used to. But I mean, there’s a lot of things, you know, it’s always


[0:30:00] Noah Gladstone: when you’re a kid, you think you can do anything and everything is easy, you know, and then as you get older, you realize how hard some of the things that you do actually is. But I also find that I can practice a lot more in my head now than without the instrument. Um And just kind of intellectually dissect what I’m trying to do in my practice session so that when I come and I have the horn to my face, I’m a lot more efficient with my time then, you know, bashing through stuff when I was in college. Um


[0:30:30] Angel Subero: 100% 100% I think uh I tell a lot of my students and, and people in general, I just say, you know, listening uh is a incredibly important aspect of any musician. So let’s say you are playing X piece, you listen to 10, 20 different versions of that piece and then you pick your favorite three or five and, and this is all here because you’re listening, listening, listening by the time that you go to the instrument, you’re gonna have a very clear concept of what you want to sound like. And, um, and also, you know, we’re a little older now so I don’t do as much listening as I used to when I was younger, but I did a lot of spend a lot of time when you have a clear concept of what you’re gonna sound like in your head. It’s a lot easier to, to, to achieve that than know knowing what you want to sound like and trying to discover what you want to sound like through navigating your technical difficulties. Uh One thing that Scott Harman told me one time was, uh, you know, I was playing a tune for him on something a piece and he said, dude, don’t, don’t let, don’t let the technical difficulties that you might have or you might encounter in your own playing, dictate what the music should sound like, let the music dictate what it should sound like. And then your technique is gonna get fixed and you know, it, Scott is, is a pretty, uh he works hard, but he’s pretty gifted in many ways. So you can, one can, one can say, oh, easy for you to say. But at the same time now that I’m getting older. There’s a lot to be said for that. You know, like if you said what you wanna, if you know exactly what the, the, what you wanna say musically uh playing a particular piece that can be technique or can be whatever, whatever piece you wanna play. I think something magical happens when you let the music take over and then just it flows instead of you trying to control everything that is happening. Here here, the boss, the, this boom, boom, boom, you know, it’s too, it’s too much to control. So sometimes I tell people in order to gain that control, that you want, you gotta let go of that control if that makes any sense. Totally, totally. But it’s a very hard thing to do.


[0:32:54] Noah Gladstone: It’s, it’s a matter of trusting yourself, which is sometimes hard. We have so many, you know, self esteem issues in our heads sometimes or, you know, especially perform as a performing artist getting up on stage and, and, and presenting yourself to people in a, in a kind of raw, uh you know, without a net in a sense and then, you know, being judged by your peers, by your, your audience, by all of that stuff, you know, that kind of manifests yourself, you know, in your brain. And I think a lot of times people end up getting chop issues probably because more of the mental stress than necessarily the physical stress. I mean, certainly there is focal dystonia and physical stress and all of those things. But, but a lot of times, you know, I see, you know, and a lot of my colleagues that are, you know, particularly stressful people and don’t handle that stress. Well, I mean, that’s a whole aspect of, of performing. We can spend a whole episode probably talking about that


[0:33:46] Angel Subero: one thing that I would say. Um, when I, one time I was struggling with this consistency thing, you know, for a while and it really drove me crazy because, um even though I was in school, my, uh I just wanted to somehow and I still feel this way. Um I, I just wanna be at a world class level at all times no matter what style I play, no matter, you know. So, you know, like I, I just, I, I’ve been here for a long time. I, I never, I stopped a lot. I sat a lot next to do. I never had to miss a note. So that was fascinating to me. I, I tell people this, some of the people, some of the colleagues he said, oh, no, no, he, he will miss, I’ve never heard it, you know, and I spent at least 18 years sitting next to him. Um, you know, now we are very lucky here in town that we have one of the best monies or trombone in the planet. Jim Markey, you know, along with Toby Oft, along with Steve Lange is a of a two players. But, you know, like, as in the field of like Jim Markey is a, is a so, you know, I, I guess I, I don’t live with that in mind but I wanna be the best version of my playing my, the playing the best player I can be so I can hang out with those high level musicians. Um So, uh one of the things that Doug had me do one time, I was struggling with consistency and he said like, why don’t you record the 1st 10 minutes of your practice sessions for the next week? So I still have the tape somewhere around there, you know, like that, I, I found the door that I was doing some cleaning and, and I was like, oh yeah, that was a, it was a hard lesson because I mean, we listened to a whole tape and then we talked about, um, yeah, that’s just your problem. You were your practice session. You are practicing in an incorrect way. You’re not warming up in the correct way. You’re confusing, warming up with practicing. You are mixing up everything. You are not creating consistency. So then that sort of change. They, uh he told me a little bit of his routine that what he told me that one time, he went for about 10 years without taking a day off, even family vacations or everything. So, speaking of consistency. You know, then you, you, a lot of people are like, oh my God, I will never be at that level but then people don’t see the what’s behind it. For example, like Mike Roy, he, you drive by his house at 7-7:30 in the morning and you hear him playing his routine. You know, it, it’s, it’s consistent. 77 do is sitting in his chair warming up and doing the same thing at seven in the morning. So then, you know, you come to the symphony hall and you hear those guys and you’re like, wow, they’re amazing. But yeah, but there’s a tremendous amount of uh discipline and hard work that goes into it. Toby, he’s practicing there like, you know, I played a lot of his tenure year and yeah, he was, he always, he still practices as much as he did back then, you know, four or five hours. I mean, you find him at the hall 12 in the morning trying stuff, recording himself. It’s a tremendous amount of discipline that goes behind everything. So just being around that vibe really change a lot here for me and seeing that my heroes, oh, they, they still work like Norman Walter, one of the most gifted players ever. And musicians and minds, you know, one of the things that I noticed when I was sobbing, uh when I started sobbing a lot with pops and B O is that he will get there two hours early and start warming up two hours early and he will be the last one on stage and then he will stay for a half hour, 40 minutes warming down every day before every service. So I started sort of get there two hours early and hanging out with him and listening to him practice and talking to him and he will be playing and talking practicing. It’s, it’s, there’s something about that discipline and consistency that, that I, it really just being around that love and discipline of playing your instrument and just that consistency. I, I, I’m repeating myself. It really made a difference for me in my life and, and I’m still good friends with all those, those guys, you know, like I worked with Norman at the Boston Serv and it’s just phenomenal to hear him talk about anything. 


[0:38:20] Noah Gladstone: He’s, he’s spent a lot of time. I mean, he’s figured it out. Uh, you know, just, we’re, we’re all athletes in a sense, you know, we have to stretch and warm up just like a, just like a long distance runner would or a long jumper or, you know, a pole vaulter.


[0:38:33] Angel Subero: So now that I, I mean, I know the fear of the theory of it, I, uh I don’t do it right. Of course, of course. But little bit about it.


[0:38:42] Noah Gladstone: It’s interesting. You said something about, um, you know, listening to yourself, recording yourself and, and, and being critical of that. And I think that’s a really valuable tool for a lot of students. I know when I, I was doing it, you know, you have this ideal trombone sound in your head and you know that, you know, it’s got to be this super, super clean thing. And one thing that was comforting to me that I think really helped my playing along was when I realized, you know, at the end of the day, this is a trombone and it should sound like a trombone. It shouldn’t sound like a valve trombone per se or a valve euphonium. Like it should sound like a trombone, which means it’s OK to have some glossy slide noise sometimes. And you know, some, some of these other things that’s just the nature of the instrument. And that was a relief for me. You know,


[0:39:26] Angel Subero: it was, it’s fascinating. I just, uh on Sunday when I got to New York, a friend of mine was playing a very dear friend of mine drummer, was playing with a quintet uh at this place. So late night I went, I jump with them a little bit. And then uh there’s a Colombian conga player who is a conga, but he is a phenomenal composer, writes for orchestra and stuff. He started asking me some very, very interesting questions about his writing a piece and he wanted to see if you play certain notes that line up if you have different harmonic play. The same note but no moving the slide for the, to adjust the harmonics, what the notes, the notes sound like and what the richness of the note. It was a very interesting thing, conversation to her at a bar where people are listening to he and he’s asking me all these super cool questions, you know, and I was like, all right, I, I let me go get a beer and a shot and then let me, let me see if I remember. You know. So, um but it was very cool because we started talking about, uh uh you know, the a flat and first position that a lot of jazz players played. Certainly JJ Johnson did a lot of, do, you know, played a lot of a flat at first and so forth and all the other people too. And um, so I started telling him that, you know, uh uh you know, this whole thing is amazing for the people who can do it, but I kind of got into the whole thing about using a lot of glissando the doodle tongue in order to do fast playing. And there’s something fascinating about that, you know, too, like you’re saying, just it’s OK to have, it’s a trombone. It’s nice to have the ability to be very articulated and sound like a valve and all that stuff, especially if you’re playing in a section or a Brahms Chorale. But it’s also, there’s a beauty to that imperfection, that little gliss, you know, it’s like, you know, cellos, you know, when they glaze or when, you know, a great singer that just goes from one note to the other. There’s, there’s something fascinating and amazing and beautiful about the, the instrument. You


[0:41:39] Noah Gladstone: know, there’s a, there is a special sound in that, that space, I call it like that space right before the note. There’s a, you know, um, and, and even on some excerpts, I think it can, you know, it works really, really well. Sometimes when you kind of connect this, this tissue from note to note, you know, there’s not a lot, certainly no other brass instrument that can do that. And it really is a special, I mean, you know what, they nailed it when they designed it in the 15 hundreds, they, they, they smashed that trombone design because here we are still playing it 500 years later, which is pretty amazing. I love you. I know. All right, John, I’ve uh capitalized this, this podcast enough. So, one of you.


[0:42:18] John Snell: Oh, man, I, I, I, I love being the fly on the wall um on, since we kind of brought up excerpts here. Um Could you talk a little bit or a lot about um audition preparation? You said something really interesting about the art of audition prep and even though you didn’t necessarily have aspirations to be an orchestral musician, it was something you thought would help you can, you talk about that and also give us a window into what your audition preparation looks like.


[0:42:43] Angel Subero: Yeah. Well, you know, there’s all, all, all those, uh, books Don Don Green, uh, those, like, you know, two months and you break all the excerpts in half and slow down the thing for like, four months, you know, four weeks and all that business. Right. For me personally, as I, especially as I’m getting older, I think what the music is based on scales on our page uses, whether you like it or not, it’s just it, that’s what it’s based on major or minor scales and a, you know, or chromatic scales. I personally always have felt that I always go back to the technique and the fundamentals because if you can’t play a scale in tune, there’s no way you’re gonna be able to play any excerpt in tune. So for example, like if we talk about William Tell, which has a chromatic thing. If you, if your chromatic scale game is not, is not on point, there’s never gonna, you’re not gonna be able to play that excerpt. So for me, I always try to go around, you know, like, uh it’s funny because uh way before I did, I learned about that book, like that book, The Ralph Sauer uh made making the excerpts um harder, but it’s the same kind of thing, you know, that’s sort of the same thing that a lot of people do. So, um, I think I, I find, I try to find for that are, um, more or less similar to whatever excerpt I wanna play. I think it’s 21 of, uh, book number one that has a, I mean, you know, that’s a lot harder if you get through the whole page on time in time and keeping the same value of the thing playing the right of the bar is nothing right um so forth, you know, you find different things like that. Um I always try to include, you know, any kind of issues or, you know, make up any exercise or flexibility, high things. So, you know, like if, if, if you have, for example, based on more players, most based on players have serious issues with the high range, it’s, it’s a problem. Like I tell a lot of my kids, I’m like, yo, you gotta, you gotta get your game together because I mean, the fact is that there’s a lot of so many, there’s so many players phenomenal players nowadays that can, that got that race down, you know, not just Mary, but a lot of people, you know, Paul Pollard, um a bunch of people in Europe like Stefan Schultz, like all those guys can play high with no issues, you know, like they can go up to. So technically, in my opinion, for the modern basketball player, you gotta have a high f there like every day period and you gotta go all the way down to better be flat or whatever you need to do. Right? So, um I think just once again going to that sports um mentality, like if you, if you read what runners, how runners train, they push, you know, pass whatever they might need to and they, before the audition, they start slowing down. So by the time they get to the audition, they’re fresh and they’re not tired, overworked, you know,


[0:46:21] John Snell: The System.


[0:46:22] Angel Subero:  I remember, you know, uh dear friend, my dear friend, uh Darren Acosta who is a phenomenal player. He’s out there in, in Finland. I, you know, we spent a lot of time playing pops and I spent a lot of time just hanging out talking audition stuff and sometimes, you know, a lot of times I would play for him or, you know, if he was training for an audition, he would play and then he, you know, I have, I would have conversations after auditions and he would tell me a couple, couple of times, you know, I think he took maybe one or two auditions before he went out to Finland and he won the audition. He moved that he definitely, I remember him definitely telling me that he didn’t taper himself. And by the time that he played the audition, he didn’t feel as fresh, he felt like he was overworked a little bit. And that was, that was, that was a thing that you know, whatever that means for him because he’s, you know, we’re all different levels and he’s such a, um, detailed oriented and so hardcore, like, into the practicing and everything. I mean, he’s such a, um, yeah, he, he just very, very, very hardcore into his practicing. But, yeah, but there was a lot of that. So I think you gotta find your own ways to, I think there’s no one formula to win. I think some people are very intense and some people do a lot of stuff. Um I think you just got to find your own way to, you know, of course, you gotta have good pitch and good rhythm and know the literature and know the style and be able to demonstrate that, you know, and you understand what’s, what’s happening in that particular moment uh in the orchestra with a particular piece. That’s where, where a lot of listening comes, comes into mind because I mean, if you have the concept, if you know what he should sound like you’re never gonna play Haydn, like, like, like you will play Bruckner, you know, or like you, you’re gonna try and find that finesse that, that particular excerpt needs or the, you know, play that, you know, like march crispy, you know, get that scale like nice and in tune, you know, get that tight sound like it’s a sound because it’s not a bass sound, you know, perhaps, you know, when wasn’t thinking about that big of a, of a sound he needs to bright, but a lot of people confuse brightness and brilliance with, uh edgy and loud and in your face. So there’s a lot of stuff there over the years, a lot of terms that, you know, no, you were saying something about, you know, a lot of people get into this fantasy of making a sound that is kind of like it’s not a trombone sound. And I think at the end of the day it just, it’s just, it’s just a trombone. You know, like I grew up listening to the Paris quartet, they didn’t have a bass. That’s sort of the sound that I have in my head. I mean, whether it’s correct or not, I don’t know, I don’t know, who am I to say? 


[0:49:21] Noah Gladstone: I think the context, you know, of what piece you’re playing and the application is, is something that’ll, you know, it’s not one sound for everything. It’s not one size fits all. You really do need to, which, you know, could take us to an equipment talk because I think, you know, equipment is a very valuable thing. Um you know, picking the right equipment for the right application. But also just, you know, knowing your role in the orchestra, I told my students all the time, you know, in an audition, most of the times, you know, if that’s what you choose, you want to do and I’ll preface that saying that, you know, we put a lot of weight on auditions and winning orchestra jobs and stuff like that. And there are so many other ways for trombonist and musicians, not just trombonist but musicians in general to, to work in music and do things that are satisfying other than just sitting in an orchestra. So, you know, not to slight the orchestra, guys, kudos to them. And it is absolutely the pinnacle of, you know, of performance and professional playing. But you know, at the same time, there’s nothing wrong with not taking auditions, but I think the audition. Yeah, go ahead.


[0:50:20] Angel Subero: No, so sorry to interrupt. But also like we, for example, here in Boston and I only talk about Boston because this is where I live and this is, you know, where I spent most of my time, you know, all my time in the States, you know, like these guys are in their mid forties, they have at least 25 years to go. I don’t see Jim Markey retiring before he’s 70. I see probably Jim is gonna be playing till he’s 80. Uh and, and I see Toby and I see all those guys doing that like they’re in their mid forties, you know, you have another 25 30 years before they retire. So meanwhile, how many uh the percentage of people graduating and trying to get a job like that orchestra is not gonna have an opening for another 30 years. So what are you gonna do in 30 years? That, that’s the kind of thing that I, you know, like, I’m in 100% agreement with you. There are so many other ways to, to make a living. Certainly, you know, like, you have a very incredible and diverse career. Like, I have a very, my career is like, you know, it’s like 25%. I play classical music and 25% I teach and 25%. I’m playing salsa bands and late night gigs. And then the other 25% I’m playing some kind of big band fusion or some jazz thing going on that where I play either I’m playing bass drone or playing tenor. I, I’m not, I don’t consider myself a player but, you know, like I, I, my main ais is the base, but I can play tenor though. You know, like you said, you can create uh AAA career that is so unique that you can separate yourself from a lot of people because certainly that’s being able to do all the things that I do is what is, has opened a lot of doors for me. Like, certainly, you know, when I teach at Berkeley, a lot of people come to me because they wanna work on the fundamentals. But some other people come to me because they want to work on their uh salsa playing and they wanna learn how to solo properly in the salsa or learn the language or learn whatever, or like some other people even come to me because they wanna just, you know, play jazz in a different way or contemporary music. So all the, so you, instead of being, uh a 11 trade pony, you have all the, a lot of other things you can bring to the table. Uh, certainly, you know, like, like my, in my career with the Boston Pops, a lot of the Rangers after me being there for almost 20 years or however long I’ve been there like a lot of the Rangers, right? The stuff and they put changes on the bass from moon chair. So I’m the kind of the guy that plays bass Ramon and plays Third Ramone. But also when it comes down to play jazz solo or any kind of solo, like the, the changes and the parts is written in my part, you know, so it’s, there’s a lot of stuff that, that you can say. Yeah. Uh I, I don’t know.


[0:53:10] Noah Gladstone: And you, and you’re, you’re playing for yourself too. And I think that’s an important thing to not burn out, you know, uh because you, you know, a lot of young students, you know, they just, they want, I want to win that orchestra job. I’m not a success if I don’t do that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That’s tough like that. And, and I think that’s, you know, that’s not necessarily the most healthy way to approach it, like, certainly take the auditions and if, you know, do that and give it a good college try and, you know, if it doesn’t work out, that’s ok. Um, don’t walk away from music. 


[0:53:42] Angel Subero: You can make a living, playing music, you can make a living. Being a chamber musician, you can create an ensemble, you could create all kinds of things. I, I played, uh, I played for 


[0:53:51] Noah Gladstone: Can make a living as a serpent player. Well, maybe not, maybe not.


[0:53:55] Angel Subero: You can, you can,


[0:53:58] Noah Gladstone: maybe, maybe,


[0:53:59] Angel Subero: but you know, but I mean, you can be a, a chamber music, you can create your own chamber music series or you, you, there’s a lot of stuff that you can do um to sort of create a very cool uh artistic life. Like I certainly, I, I have the, the, the, the privilege now where I play with a lot of people that I really enjoy playing with. So a lot of the gigs that I play now, it’s not that I go to a gig now and I’m like, oh, I have to play with. So and so I have to, oh my God, this, no, it literally like I’m very fortunate to say that I worked out my life in a way that, you know, I play with whomever I want to play. And the people that I play with, I really enjoy them. And like hanging is a big part of my life. My social life is very important. So being able to work with people that I like is, is, is huge for me. I’m a very, uh you know, I’m a very outgoing person and blah, blah, blah. But I’m, you know, when, if I walk into a situation where the vibe is weird and I think we all know what, what, what, what I’m talking about where people are just vibing you and stuff. I’m very sensitive to that. So, and that really brings me, brings me down and makes me sad because I love playing music. I, I think we are very privileged and lucky to do what we do. And it’s not a career for everyone as you guys know. But I think if you put all your heart into it, I think all that love that you put into, it comes back to you. It manifests in some uh in some way or another. I don’t and I’m not being, you know, I’m not talking about being spiritual or religious or anything. It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with your love for music, your love for your craft and the love that you put into every day. If you practice every day, if you get better every day, if you care about what you do and you are loving music, people are gonna see that and people are gonna notice that and some kind of opportunity is gonna open up uh at some point or another, you know, and it’s just a matter of keeping an open mind and not just being like, yeah, if you love orchestra, if you go ahead and get a job in an orchestra, great kudos to you, go ahead, get that job. I hope it works out for you. Awesome for me. I get, there’s a joy on playing in an orchestra, you know, like I just played uh Beethoven Nine A hall and symphony hall. It was two sold out concerts and, you know, it, it was, it was like, it was cool because it was cool to play that after a few years of not doing it. I’m like, wow, this is kind of cool. And you come in and you have to sit there for a long time and just nailed it, you know, but also I get the same joy. I just played last, last Saturday with my quintet, my Latin jazz jazz quintet at this club, you know, this, this bar and it was such an amazing feeling just making music at the highest level with these amazing musicians and there’s something about it. So it just makes you live with it, you know,


[0:57:03] Noah Gladstone: the human connections, you know, it’s, that’s why we, that’s why we play music, you know, I hope that’s why we all play music. At least that’s why I play music and it sounds like that’s why you play music. And John, I know that’s why you play music So


[0:57:15] John Snell: that’s why I play music.


[0:57:18] John Snell: can we talk a little bit about that? Especially like the Latin and Latin jazz and jazz uh that you uh that you do, I mean, you started off with the Cuatro playing folk music at an early age. Um And I know especially in the Latin uh realm that’s, you know, that’s how music is taught. Basically, you sit in with bands and you listen um you know, uh is there um So you, so you mentioned you, like, you’ll have uh students come to you and ask you how to play Latin jazz. What, where do you take them? Do you just have them listen to a lot or uh do specific things?


[0:57:47] Angel Subero:  Um Yeah, there’s a, there’s a lot of people who, you know, when I was growing up in Venezuela, you know, you’re always, always listening to a lot of music. There’s a band from Venezuela, it’s called Latina Latin Dimension. And that school, that band in particular is amazing because it’s all trombones. The, the section the leader was a trombone player with Oscar de Leon. Oscar de Leon. That’s where he got his starting as a singer and all that. And um you know, but the beauty of that band is like, it’s at some point there were like six or seven drone players playing two parts or three parts like that. It was like, they used to get that super cool studio sound, you know, doubling parts, you know, and that, so that’s a big part of uh the culture in Venezuela. So, you know, we, I grew up listening to that, but I also, I always loved it and I always had a fascination for um in the art of improvisation. So, uh that being said, you know, I, I, as I started digging into the whole salsa thing, I also, same time I was digging into the improvisation thing, you know, listen to JJ Johnson and you know, like Frank Rosolino and all, you know, these amazing players, you know, s like Hampton is one of my, my all time heroes. And so, you know, you start listening to so people who solo and people who solo and there’s something lacking in there, you know, maybe the rhythm is there but the harmonic language is not there and stuff. So that’s what got me interested instead of digging more for the, the in depth and especially for me. So I go through a whole thing where I go back in history, you know, not just trombone, like just percussion uh listening to which is a very old style of music that has low bongos, you know, and everything about the is that it doesn’t have a base, it has something they call, which is a box and has like three metal things or whatever and said, mm So, you know, and then you have the, the dress going pu pu pu pu Pu pu, pu, pu, pu, pu, pu, pu, pu, pu pu, it’s all off beats. So, you know, it’s, it’s very fascinating because it’s very hard to, when you listen to it, you know, it sounds super easy and uh you know, listening to very old recordings, you know, listening to flute players, listening to piano players, listening to trumpet players, then we get into, you know, slowly we start getting into trombone thing because a lot of people try to start in the trombone. Oh Willie Colon, you know, eighties or seventies. And that’s not quite, you know, like, I love Willie and, and, and his amazing influence in, in the Latin from one scene. But I think there were people before that, that actually were doing a lot of stuff that was very important. Certainly, you know, like we, uh there’s a friend of mine who is a great singer. He’s been doing this series of um the top 10, but he’s using the, the, the whole thing about the sport thing to um top 10 salsa orchestra, top 10 trumpets. And so we had a discussion with Francisco Torres, uh Doug Beavers, uh myself and, and Jeremy, the guy hosting the thing and we talked about, you know, top 10 solos, you know, top 10, you know, straight head but straight head salsa, you know, and I think it was a pretty interesting uh conversation but one of the things that, you know, it was, you know, who used to play with Benny more back in the fifties, he was one of the first solos then, Juan Pablo Torres Cuban. Uh There’s a lot of people that were doing stuff at around the same time, you know, happening around the same time, you know, in the seventies by Roy was doing a lot of stuff in New York. The same thing was happening in Venezuela. So there were a lot of things happening simultaneously. But if you listen to all of them, it’s very, they’re all very different. So I sort of, I think the historic context, like in everything, you know, if you wanna listen, if you wanna learn jazz, you gotta go from the beginning, you can’t just go straight and start playing Orne Coleman. You, you gotta go and check out, you know, bird, you know, you gotta spend a long time, you know, you gotta listen to De Dexter Gordon, Lester Young. I mean, all those amazing players, you know, bird and then boom, boom, boom, the evolution and then you get to, you know, you get to Anne Coleman and then you’re cool. But you know, if you try to start from the very end, like it, it you don’t learn. So for me, it’s very important to, to show also this music, this all music come from Africa and everything has a beat and everything is based on the. So it’s important. They, they understand that the percussion, the percussive, percussive aspects and understand percussion instrument. You don’t have to play percussion, but you have to understand the, you have to understand the, the function of the. Sometimes I have them transcribe either or solos and play, put melodies into it or I have them work with a lot of, yeah. And, or, or sometimes I have them transcribe singers. You know, like is My Rivera is one of my favorite, you know, and because of the melodic aspect of it. So, you know, it’s a whole thing. I should. Pardon me? Every now and then I think, yeah, I should put this into writing and then I’m like, yeah, I’m gonna drive myself crazy. So I just leave it like that. Maybe one day I will, I don’t know. I don’t because I much, well, it’s so much you have to, it’s, it’s so, it’s so much beauty out there. You know what I mean? Like, it’s the same thing as, uh but I think it’s important, the most important thing for me is that they go back and understand the roots of where this music is coming from and respect the tradition because otherwise, then, you know, where, where are we doing? We’re just learning how to repeat. It’s like, you know, I was listening to some, um, oh, they were talking about, what do you think about grading and exams on the school system? And he said, well, does it really work? I don’t know because we’re just telling people or having people learn phrases and learn paragraphs and just repeat it or write it as an answer in the exam. Are they really learning and internalizing what this really means? 


[1:04:16] Noah Gladstone: No problem solving there really? I mean, you just, you know, you know what I’m saying? 


[1:04:20] Angel Subero: I know what you mean. Yeah. It, it’s, it’s a very fascinating thing and I’m not once again, you know, I’m very careful when I bring up these things because it’s a big, you’re opening a big can of worms. But I think, I, I think it’s always very important. Like you, you ask people like, uh, you know, uh I saw a thing, this is maybe two years ago, some people posted a thing of Gordon Pulis, the, you know, and they were a bunch of people like kids who are very talented, a few of them, you know, were living in this town and, and, and they were talking all kinds of nonsense and just being like, you know,  says that get behind the screen and start saying whatever. They didn’t even know who go to Pulis was. Right. And we’re not even talking about 100 years of history here. I mean, how long is Joe has been principal in the New York Phil?


[1:05:18] Noah Gladstone: Eighties, early, mid eighties, early eighties. Yeah.


[1:05:21] Angel Subero: Go to, he was principal. What In the, in the fifties?


[1:05:24] Noah Gladstone:  Fifties and early sixties


[1:05:26] Angel Subero: Sixties. Yeah. Yeah. So we’re not even talking about, you know, 100 years of that that went by. No, what? It’s about 50 years and they don’t even know yet. You know, these are the people who are trying to win a job in an orchestra and they don’t know who the history or who they don’t know.


[1:05:44] Noah Gladstone:  Gordon is the, you know, the fellow that kind of established the modern American orchestral trombone sound. 


[1:05:53] Angel Subero: Absolutely,sir. So, so, you know, it’s fascinating for me as an outsider to see this whole thing or like, you know, I get a lot of uh sometimes I get emails or, you know, people ask me running to me either man. I don’t know, like I spoke to my teacher. So and so when they said that I should contact you and ask you uh how can I break in the scene and what’s the best way to do? And then I start naming the people who actually are the, the top freelancers in this town. And I say like, do you know? So and so, oh no, I don’t know who that person is and you’re like, OK, you want a freelance and you wanna get a cut but you don’t even, you haven’t, you’ve been here for three or five years and you haven’t taken the time to know who are the people who are working here. Uh So it’s very interesting. It’s a very interesting thing. Uh I don’t know, again, I hope I’m not coming across I can criticizing anyone. But, you know, for me, it’s very important that


[1:07:00] Noah Gladstone: You have to pay your dues, you have to pay your dues. You have to, you know, be part of the community. And I think that’s something that is unique to the, you know, a performing craft. It’s the same for actors. It’s the same, you know, you have to, you have to be part part of the community, you have to contribute to the community, you have to, you know, show yourself and prove yourself to your colleagues that not only can you play, but like, you know, you’re a decent person, you know. 


[1:07:25] Angel Subero: You’re improving that you’re doing things. You know, it’s, it’s the same thing, you know, I, I’ve been checking out a lot of stand up comedy and, you know, like, and the history of it, like, the people in debt, they very


[1:07:36] Noah Gladstone: Similar to the freelance music world


[1:07:40] Angel Subero: And speaking of brutal stuff, like, if we complain of being musicians, oh my God, like those guys go through such rough uh uh when they are coming up, it’s, it’s so rough and it’s so hard. But I think, you know, one thing that I always tell people, you gotta make sure the people who are actively playing, they know who you are. They know that you’re a good person obviously and they, they know that you’re improving and you’re doing things, you know, because otherwise if I don’t know who is sounding good sometimes I get calls for stuff and I don’t, I can’t do it. And if people, sometimes people ask me, what do you think should we call? If I don’t know the 10 20 they are starting here. Besides the ones that started with me, I can’t recommend anyone. I recommend my people if they’re, if I feel like if I feel like they’re ready, I recommend my, my colleagues first. If I feel like, you know, I have a couple of students that are sound really, really excellent. Uh I have a couple of students that can read and play tuba and they can do and they can play big band stuff. Great. I can, I’m happy to recommend them, but I can’t recommend people that I don’t know,


[1:08:52] Noah Gladstone: This is, this is the process and I think, you know, this is the process and how it works. Um Amazing stuff. Uh I would love to talk a little bit about our uh your equipment and stuff because I’m such a trombone nerd as you know. So, uh and I know a lot of our listeners are trombone nerds as well and they always want to know what’s the gear you’re using, you know, what’s your horn? What’s your mouthpiece like, set up nerdy, things like that. So, enlighten us, please.


[1:09:22] Angel Subero: Ok. 


[1:09:22] Noah Gladstone: I mean, Shires, right? Because you’re in Boston. So well,


[1:09:26] Angel Subero: No, actually, no. So, no. Yeah. No. Well, here’s the deal. So I played Shires and I still keep a very great relationship with, uh, with them, with all of them, uh, the company and also the person, you know, very good friends. Um, I, 


[1:09:49] Noah Gladstone: He’s making his own trombones now, you know, it’s very exciting.


[1:09:50] Angel Subero:  Yeah. Yeah, I was, I was chatting with him a few weeks ago. Uh, my colleague Hans Boone who is a big freelancer here in town and, and my colleague at Berkeley, Steve Davis Jazz phenomenal, ja, we’ve been talking about going up to Vermont and hang out and try trombones and drink beer from his house.


[1:10:07] Noah Gladstone:  He’s got the hops like hanging on his doorstep and, you know, he’s crazy,


[1:10:13] Angel Subero: You know, the, the, the, the, the IPA game 


[1:10:18] Noah Gladstone: Every time I get a trombone ship from Steve, I’m like, uh by the way, you need to send some beer with you, you know, in the box because of sunshine is amazing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 


[1:10:30] John Snell: Sorry, can I jump in and mention that we made it one hour before we started talking about beer. So good job guys. Yes,


[1:10:35] Noah Gladstone: We hit the milestone.


[1:10:38] Angel Subero: That’s, that’s pretty good. 


[1:10:39] John Snell: That’s pretty good for a trombone podcast. Please carry on…


[1:10:42] Angel Subero:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, ok, so I, I was playing Edwards for a little bit and um great instruments, um the particular instrument that I was playing, I just felt like it was missing a little bit of the weight that I think uh based on what you have. And so I do play, I have a corporation from the, you know, late sixties that I put on and I have our own back 50 slide. So that’s, that’s what I’ve been playing on for the past 35 years. Uh, I play, my best is a, is a corporation pretty much. No, I, I can, I can do it too much for me. I just, because I play, I, I don’t switch equipment, you know, I played the same bass from, for everything that I play solo music, uh you know, big band orchestra or whatever. So for me, it’s important that there has to be a couple of um for me, uh part of what helps my consistency in my brain is just have the same equipment. I can’t really switch too much the mouthpieces. Um It messes me up and I play a, a custom mouthpiece. Um So, uh based on a European thing that is played before, did a thing and it’s, it’s kind of cool kind of, and it uses the mouthpiece, uses elements of the they tailor uh custom office, but the, the cup on the rim is very, very, completely different. And I had, I had him fall down the inner bite. So because, you know, I play for such a long amount of hours, sometimes I play a lot in my teaching and then I go and play a rehearsal and then I go. So it’s very important for me to not you know, I use a little bit, I use a little when I play, I use a little bit too much pressure, especially, you know, as I’m getting tired as the day goes along. So I got a, you know, so that’s, that’s, uh, that’s sort of what I play and then I have two. I have, actually I have it here. It’s a, it’s a whole, uh, straight 5 47. it was my teacher’s Horn Larry and he gave it to me. Uh I think Chris Foley and Jacobs helped him pick it for like one of the old Halton man. 


[1:13:09] Noah Gladstone: It’s one of the best one, you know, those old they get, they get so shit on. Uh and the quality is like, but they sound so good.


[1:13:17] Angel Subero: No, this, this one is, is so good. It’s such a beautiful tone. And then, uh then for my Latin gigs I play at Bach 16, 16


[1:13:28] Noah Gladstone: or 16, 16


[1:13:29] Angel Subero: M-16. Old school. Yeah. Old school. Yeah, I, I, I went, I fought, you know, after doing all the, all the stuff, you know, I think about it. I, I, I, I spoke to, uh to Steve about, you know, maybe, you know, trying some of these things and I know that he built one bass trombone. 


[1:13:50] Noah Gladstone: He’s done one so far. Yeah.


[1:13:51] Angel Subero: Yeah. I’m interested in trying and checking out that option because I, I love Steve and I wanna, uh, he makes incredible instruments and, and everybody that is playing his. They all say that it’s superior to anything that he’s made before. So I’m very curious about that. But also, you know, once I made the move to go back to uh a box, all my colleagues, all my colleagues uh from Mike Roland, who is the to play the Boston symphony to um my, the trombone section in the esplanade pops, the trumpets who sit in front of me, all my colleagues, they’ve been, they were like, OK, that’s the sound like literally 11 night when I went back when I put my, the, so I used to play with the Shire slide and then I found this old 50 slide and um I put it on and I brought it and I was warming up. It was in an arena. We were doing a Boston Pops concert there in Manchester, New Hampshire and my colleague uh Joe Foley who is a phenomenal trumpet player. He lives in town. He’s amazing and uh Joe hurt me. He’s not even seeing where I’m at. He’s not even seeing what I’m playing. He’s like, where are you playing? And I was like, what are you talking about? It’s my horn. He’s like, no, something is different. Keep playing you. No, he went back to me and I wouldn’t show him and he said, no, something is different and whatever you’re playing, that’s what you need to play all the time.


[1:15:18] Noah Gladstone: When you get the trumpet player’s attention then you know, you’ve really, you’ve really cracked it. Yeah.


[1:15:22] Angel Subero: You know, but it was just, it was just, just them, like, you know, a couple of times I would, I would be practicing and even my colleague, uh Eli Epstein, I don’t know if you know him, a horn teacher. He’s very amazing. He used to play in the Cleveland orchestra and uh amazing teacher, amazing, amazing teacher and really wonderful person and a couple of times, um sometimes we will be taking breaks during audition times or juries and now we take my horn and start practicing and, you know, even Eli came out and he never says anything. Eli came one day and said like, hey, I, I really think this is the best I ever heard. You sound on that horn. I think you should stick to that. And then Norman said the same thing. So for now, unless I find something that is better than that, you know, it, it’s,


[1:16:16] Noah Gladstone: It’s a different flavor. It’s not necessarily better, you know. No, I


[1:16:19] Angel Subero: mean, for me, for me personally, it’s a personal thing, you know, that’s why I don’t tell anybody what to do. Like I, I direct all my students. I tell them, hey, is here, go and try it. If you find something that you like. Awesome. If you don’t like it, then try something else. There’s many different options for me personally. Uh You know, I love it. You know, my ego sometimes is like, man, it would be nice to have, you know, a, a poster or something or, but then at the end of the day, I think as I’m getting older I’m like, I don’t really care so much about that. Not that, not that it wouldn’t be nice. It would be nice. But I’m more interested in, you know, I pick, I, I pick up the horn, the horns that I play, I just pick up, pick them up and I just play and then the sound that I’m looking for and that I hear comes out.


[1:17:10] Noah Gladstone: So there’s, it’s an extension of you.


[1:17:12] Angel Subero: I’m not working hard. I’m not doing anything funky. I’m not. So,


[1:17:18] Noah Gladstone: I mean, that’s a good fit. Right? Yeah, because like, whatever works for you


[1:17:21] Angel Subero: It’s very personal. It’s totally,


[1:17:23] Noah Gladstone: Totally, that’s why I have 100 of them because I can never make it.


[1:17:30] Angel Subero: I tell you, I tell you. But, but, but, but my girlfriend is like, it’s all, she’s always like, just say, like, dude, how many more are you gonna get? And I was like, I was like, I don’t know, I mean, how many do you use? I was like, well, technically two of them. Why do you have so many of them?


[1:17:50] Noah Gladstone: I don’t know. Just, just, you know, say like, you know, it could be worse. I could be like, Noah and you know. Yeah. You know, so don’t be like me, it’s a serious, serious sickness. Um Well, we’re getting close to the end here I think John.


[1:18:08] John Snell: We’ve got over an hour!


[1:18:10] Noah Gladstone: Amazing.


[1:18:11] Angel Subero: Thank you. Thank you for, for uh for having me. I really, you know, I really appreciate you guys uh you know, inviting me and stuff and, you know, know him maybe next time you’re here. Pretty serpent. Uh We’ll grab a beer. 


[1:18:26] Noah Gladstone: I’m trying to get H and H to do Symphony Fantastic. And I’m putting it out in the universe because I think it would be uh it would be pretty cool. Oh, yeah. Did you hear that one? 


[1:18:36] Angel Subero: You know, I’m trying to remember. I maybe, I don’t know, I, I gotta ask Doug because I know that don’t, don’t do something like that. I don’t know if it works with the symphony or


[1:18:48] Noah Gladstone: Doug used to play. Yeah, I mean, he’s retired. Actually, Doug is the reason I got to come to Boston last week. He’s the one that recommended me to, to play that job. So, uh you know, again, a, a wonderful person and uh just reminds me, I need to send him a thank you note because uh that was a, it was a lovely week in Boston. I really enjoyed myself and I got to say that the, the M fa was just mind blowing to see all that artwork in there. I mean, anyone visiting uh Boston, if you haven’t been to the M fa, you need to go see that collection uh


[1:19:15] Angel Subero: you know, it’s funny, you know, it’s funny that I was there the night before I think, you know, when I texted you, like I, I went, I went the night before and it was awesome because um you know, it was Saint Patrick’s Day and it was a perfect night to go there because it was super empty. So I just went, you know, we, me and my lady, we just went and we there for a couple of hours checking on stuff. It’s a lot of, a lot of really awesome stuff and the only music uh section, you know,


[1:19:43] Noah Gladstone: amazing musical instruments. I mean, to see all the disk valves and stuff and, you know, trombarina and Serpent of course, and the, and all of it was, was, was just really, really thrilling. But I, I, I was just taken aback. I felt like, you know, here’s a whole museum just dedicated to humans creating awesome things. So it really reminded me and kind of lifted my soul that, you know, what can we do while we’re here? You know, looking at the John Singer Sergeant Gallery was amazing. All of the different techniques uh he’d created and I was like, wow, this is, you know, you can apply that to your own music, like all the different these amazing painters that people come to see and, and worship, you know, also are finding themselves throughout their careers. And it was just a really cool thing to see.


[1:20:29] Angel Subero: Yeah. You know, like it, it, it’s fascinating, you know how, uh, sometimes, especially, you know, now the people just focus on just one thing and they sort of forget that if you just step back and, you know, like I remember uh one of my favorite, you know, artists is, is Dali, you know, and I remember like, you know, that if, if you get a chance in San Petersburg, Florida, they have that museum out there, man. What a beautiful, first of all, the, the setting is just beautiful and then you see all these amazing art and uh it’s just somehow, you know, at some point, even if you don’t get it, if, if it doesn’t make the direct impact and you don’t get it right away, I think at some point in your life, something clicks and that fits into your artistry and all of that stuff, you know, like listening and learning about this and about that and about that, you know, uh it’s just phenomenal. Certainly, I’m, I, I can’t do any of the early stuff that you can do or, you know, I just dedicate myself to more than trombone, more or less, you know, and that’s what I do. But I, I just have an a and, and, and I just respect and I do a lot of again, once again, you know, I think listening and just immersing yourself into learning as much as you can about as much as you can, makes you a much better human and art and elevate your artistry. And therefore when you come to uh any situation you have a lot more to offer and bring to the table which, you know, in, in this, it, it, even if you’re not thinking about it, it just sort of separates you from other, you know, musicians and I think that’s what separates excellent musicians from good musicians. You know what I mean? Like there’s a, there’s a slight difference there that, you know. So anyway, that’s uh we can spend hours


[1:22:20] Noah Gladstone: and we will have to pick this up. Uh a second one and definitely next time you’re out in L A or if I’m back in Boston, we’re, we’re gonna get together for sure. Yeah,


[1:22:27] Angel Subero: I, I’ll be, I should be in L A, I think from the seventh to for a couple of weeks. So I’ll let you know for sure.


[1:22:37] Noah Gladstone: 100%. Maybe we can even do one of these live John on Instagram or something like that. Yeah,


[1:22:41] John Snell: let’s do it. Um So how can, how can folks find out about you? I mean, do you have a website or social media or?


[1:22:49] Angel Subero: Yeah, you know, uh Instagram uh Facebook and then, you know, if you people I teach at the and a Berkeley College uh on music. So uh a little bit of uh history, they are now under the same umbrella, but the cey still works as a separate institution. It basically the Boston SERV is kind of like the classical music school of, of Berkeley. And Berkeley is the big, you know, thing that offers a lot of different things I teach. Uh I have the fortune of teaching in both places and I’m head of the brass area in the, at the. So my email is on that website, you can, people can feel free to reach out via social media or whatever, you know, or if you’re in town, you see me up, I’m always, you know, I have a few places that I, uh that I frequent on a regular basis. They have excellent beer and uh an excellent whiskey. And so it’s, it’s, uh it’s always a good, it’s always good to connect with people. So, you know, definitely. Uh and I love, as I say, you know, social, my social life is pretty important to me and in my career. So, um and I just, it’s always great meeting people and just, you know, having a good time. So, you know, any time you’re in Boston just hit me up, we’ll hit you


[1:24:08] John Snell: up awesome Angel. And before we let you go, uh we have one last question for you. Uh And you’ve given us already tons of wonderful advice, but if you could leave our listeners with one last piece of advice that you would consider your best piece of advice, what would that be?


[1:24:22] Angel Subero: I think? Uh b just keep an open mind and, uh, you know, don’t be so closed on or fixing whatever you want your future to be. Because as we said earlier, um, life has so many wonderful path and, um, you know, there’s no one way to do or be, um, more and I say this word in quote successful, you know, I think successful is always tied up to a particular thing and I think you can have uh success just doing many different things. So keeping an open mind always, uh you can learn, learn as much as you can about as much as you can um from everyone that you can, that you can. And um I don’t know, just, just, it’s very important, you know, we, we live in this a planet right now where everybody is just rush and stressed out about the future and all that. And I think it’s very important to leave the moment and enjoy, try, enjoy a, you know, stop every now and then and um just look at what is around you and the good things that you have and just enjoy it, you know, and just have a good time. It’s, it’s great, you know, I love that first moment when I can, you know, pick up my horn and play those first few notes or, you know, pick up that beer, you know, that good IP A and get that first sip, you know, or, or that good, you know. Single mold or whatever you are into, you know, just take that little bit of time to sort of just, just enjoy it and, and be grateful for what we have because we’re very fortunate, you know, that even if, if you’re not making the amount of money you wanna be making still, you know, uh, uh, we’re, we’re very lucky and we’re in a very good place and we have a roof over our head and we have heater during the winter and we have ac if it’s hot and we can afford that. So that’s a lot. You know, there are many other people in other places that don’t, are not as fortunate as we are. So I don’t know, be very, be grateful and enjoy the moment and learn as much as you can, you know about life and just continue on.


[1:26:45] Noah Gladstone: I will. Cheers to that, sir.


[1:26:48] John Snell: Cheers. Yeah.


[1:26:49] Angel Subero: Right. Thank you. No, thank you. No. Thank you guys. You know, great to see you. Thank you for having me again and you know, we’ll, we’ll hang out in July. Sounds great. Awesome. Awesome.


[1:27:03] John Snell: Well, that was absolutely amazing. I mean, this is one of those episodes. I’m gonna have to listen through a couple of times, don’t you think? Noah.


[1:27:10] Noah Gladstone: Uh There’s so many tidbits and, and pieces of advice and just cerebral thinking about music and humanity and life. I mean, this is, I think what’s great about the podcast medium. It just uh really allows you to get a window into someone’s mind and you know how they think and process and uh Angel is just so amazing. Um On this episode, we’ll have to have him back. Obviously, when he, he’s out in L A, uh we’ll do an Instagram live Q and A I think would be great, but just what a prince of a human, um an amazing musician and, and just, he really gets it so uh real pleasure to have him on the episode today. Yeah.


[1:27:48] John Snell: Huge, huge. Thank you to Angel. And I mean, one of the things that struck me and is, I mean, I kind of reflected at my upbringing and, you know, I don’t know if it was conscious or just the way I was brought up. But it’s like, you know, you thought of people as a classical player or an orchestral player or a jazz player or a Latin player and even in a place like L A where there’s people that are versatile and do a lot of different things. Um You know, you kind of get pigeon holed into this track and to see uh you know, and to listen to on talk about. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I played all day. It didn’t matter what it was, you know, doing orchestra excerpts. I’m doing auditions. I’m playing in a Latin combo at night and then I do it again the next day. You know, it’s, and it’s we’ve had a couple, like Jim Miller is similar, you know, that we’ve had a few guests like this now that I think is redefining that we’re just, we’re musicians, you know, we play and its music all the time. But, yeah, and, and, uh, if you have that open mind you, yeah. And the, the, I think the thing he pointed out was the listening, you know. Yeah, you can jump from one style to the next. It doesn’t mean because you play Latin now you’re going to play classical music improperly or vice versa and that sort of thing. So it’s really refreshing to hear that in, in almost a nonchalant way. He’s like, yeah, I do it, you know, it’s not like it’s anything special even though it is.


[1:29:03] Noah Gladstone:  Well, and I’m so glad that he’s teaching so much out in, in Boston and his students are incredibly lucky to have a, a professor like that. I think. So it really allows you to kind of find yourself and, and open your mind and um what, what a treat so great to have him on.


[1:29:19] John Snell: Absolutely. Absolutely. And who’s our next guest? Wonderful that you asked. And speaking of Versatile, uh we’ll have Andy Martin on next um and uh really excited to have him


[1:29:30] Noah Gladstone: and he’s one of my favorite trombone players of all time. So, really excited to have him in the corner.


[1:29:36] John Snell: Absolutely. So thanks for listening, uh make sure you hit that, subscribe button, make sure because you don’t want to miss an episode as soon as it drops. Um, and also we want to know what you think, you know, uh, this is an open conversation. It’s not just, no, and I having fun talking to trombone players. So, you know, feel free to, uh, you know, join the Brass Ark and, and Bob Reeves, Facebook. We have a Trombone Corner Facebook that we post on. Uh, let us know who you want to hear from and let us know what your favorite takeaways from each episode are. You know, it’s important. It’s an ongoing conversation. It just doesn’t end when we uh turn off the recording. So follow us in all of those places. And I should mention to help us remain visible, you know, leaving us a review, hopefully a five star review. Um If you think we don’t deserve a five star review, email us and give us some constructive criticism of how, how we could be better because, you know, no, and I are always trying to improve. Right.


[1:30:24] Noah Gladstone: Absolutely. It’s a work in progress always and do share it with your friends and colleagues. Uh You know, the more people that, uh listen to the podcast, the more people we can have on and share all of this great knowledge with


[1:30:38] John Snell: more fun. It is. Absolutely. Absolutely.


[1:30:41] Noah Gladstone: You know, you want me to say it today or do you want to say it?


[1:30:43] John Snell: I, you know, it’s been, what, 15, 16 episodes? I, I think it’s about time.


[1:30:48] Noah Gladstone: Ok. Well, in that case, uh friends and colleagues listening, uh keep on sliding.

Author Preston Shepard

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