Fred Wesley Trombone Interview – Trombone Corner #51

September 23, 2026

Fred Wesley Trombone Interview

Welcome to the show notes for Episode #51 of the Trombone Corner podcast. This episode features trombonist, band leader and recording artist Fred Wesley.

He’s one of the trailblazers of funk, the man who helped define the sound of James Brown, Parliament and Funkadelic, working with Maceo Parker and Bootsy Collins, amongst so many more.

But he didn’t set out to be known as “Funky Fred.” In fact, the funk came to him very much by accident. Jazz was his first love: JJ Johnson, Kai Winding, Carl Fontana, Miles Davis – Fred knew every note Kind of Blue.

Fred Wesley joins Noah and John to talk about his path from a musically rich childhood in Mobile, Alabama to becoming one of the defining trombone voices in funk and jazz. We learn about the early gigs that shaped him, the demands of touring with Ike & Tina Turner, James Brown and George Clinton, and how he later returned to jazz and big band work.

Along the way, Fred learned tons of practical advice that he shares with younger players: learn your instrument, learn the business, and show up prepared.

Fred continues to record and tour, including shows this fall in Europe and Australia, and he shares the recent work with his Fred Wesley Generations Trio featuring Leonardo Corradi and Tony Match. Truly an inspiration to generations of musicians, and a man who put the trombone on the map!

About Fred Wesley

 Fred Wesley is one of the defining voices of funk trombone. As a key member, arranger and musical director for James Brown and the JBs, his playing helped shape some of the most important records in funk  history. Fred later joined George Clinton’s Parliament Funkadelic, and also  brought his sound into jazz with the Count Basie Orchestra.

Over a career spanning more than six decades, Fred has performed and recorded with artists including Ray  Charles, Maceo Parker, Bootsy Collins, Earth, Wind & Fire, and Van Morrison.  He has also continued exploring jazz through projects like the Generations Trio, alongside Leonardo Corradi and Tony Match.

Today, Fred continues to perform, record, and tour, carrying  forward one of the most influential trombone voices in modern music.


Leonardo Corradi

Fred Wesley episode links

Bob Reeves Brass Events and Appearances:

  • Virtuosity Music, October 9-10, Boston, MA
    Signup link
  • Greg Black Mouthpieces, November 6-7, Mount Holly, NC
  • NCMEA Conference, November 8-9, Winston-Salem, NC

Podcast Credits

Transcript

Please note, this transcript is automatically generated. It may contain spelling and other errors. If you would like to assist us in editing or translating this transcript, please let us know at info@bobreeves.com.

​

FRED WESLEY: [00:00:00] Waylon Reid, he asked me, he said, uh, he called me up and said,” You want a gig?

“He said,” James Brown needs the trombone player. “I said,” James Brown? “”No, I, I don’t wanna do that,” you know? I said, and he, he just screaming, hollering, sissy. I said, ” I, I, I can’t do that, you know?” But, uh, he talked to me, talked to me, told me who was in the band, , I said, “Well, may- maybe, maybe I, I, I, I can get into this band, you know?”​

JOHN SNELL: Welcome to the Trombone Corner Podcast, where we feature interviews with trombonists from all over the globe.

NOAH GLADSTONE: globe.

JOHN SNELL: It’s great to have you join us as we talk all things trombone, brought to you by the Brass Ark and Bob Reeves Brass. I’m John Snell from Bob Reeves Brass, and joining me today, as always, is my trusty co-host, Noah Gladstone of the Brass Ark.

Noah, fabulous as always. Howdy, John.

NOAH GLADSTONE: Good

JOHN SNELL: to see you. Oh, I am so excited.

NOAH GLADSTONE: Oh,

JOHN SNELL: Oh, this [00:01:00] is, uh, a

dream,

a dream guest here.

I,

I have to tell you a funny story. I used to play in a funk band in LA, uh, called Cousin Junebug with my dear friend, Jeremy Zuckerman, who also is the composer of Avatar: The Last Airbender, the number one movie, uh, on Paramount Plus at the moment.

And we used to play

NOAH GLADSTONE: in a, in a

JOHN SNELL: funk band, all Jewish boys playing, uh, the JB’s music. So I used to listen and transcribe Fred solos, and I’m so excited to have Fred Wesley here in the trombone corner today to share his thoughts with us and some knowledge and just pinch me. I’m excited. I’m excited. Look at me.

Look at me. I didnt sleep. I didn’t, I was up all night. This is so incredible. So let’s, we have some trombone news, uh, and then we’ll get right to the inter- interview with Fred Wesley.

​

JOHN SNELL: If you’re a trombone player, you already know that the right equipment is rarely just a matter of picking something off a [00:02:00] shelf.

NOAH GLADSTONE: That’s right, John. That’s why we decided to develop the Reeves Brass Arc mouthpieces. We wanted to make trombone mouse pieces that feel really great to play, sound terrific, and actually work with the way trombone players put their equipment together. And I wanted to draw from some of the best historical examples in my personal museum collection.

These are all made right at your shop up in Valencia, California.

JOHN SNELL: And besides these fabulous mouthpieces here at Bob Reaves Brass, you’ll also find other great things for trombonists, including Shire’s trombones, Wolvane Mutes, and the ever popular guard bags.

NOAH GLADSTONE: At the Brass Ark, we specialize in exceptional instruments, both new and used, exclusive new models from Miles O’Malley in Chicago, Marcus Leichter, Stevens Brass by Steve Shires, Edgar Historical Brass Instruments among other S tier makers, along with one of the largest curated selections of vintage and unusual instruments that you’re not gonna find in most shops.

If you’ve got a special trombone or trumpet or something else sitting in your closet and you’re ready to find it a new home, I can help with that too through my [00:03:00] consignment services.

JOHN SNELL: Bob Reeves Brass and the Brass Ark, where generations of craft meet today’s artists.

​

JOHN SNELL: Well, Noah, you just got off the, uh, the plane, right? You had a nice trip, sound like, to Chicago. Tell us about it. I just got back from Chicago. I was there, over the weekend, in the past few days working, at O’Malley’s shop with Miles O’Malley and his team there, putting a couple prototypes together.

Uh, most importantly and excitingly is we have our first working bass trombone prototype, which is just phenomenal. Um, it was quite an experience because,

you know,

uh, putting all those parts together, the first iteration, getting to play on that, feeling it out,

you know,

right away, what’s your knee jerk reaction?

Like what are you actually feeling? Spending a little more time kind of pushing against it and, uh, innovating as well, like trying to solve a lot of problems that I think bass trombones have, with regard to,

you know,

the way valves are incorporated into the instrument

and, and,

and what is [00:04:00] the ideal bass trombone sound and all of those things.

So to get to work with Miles, who is an absolute genius, uh, with his ideas and his machining and his whole shop is just so great to be there. The vibe is so great. And of course, like to be there with Jay Friedman and,

you know,

having his ears, having him even test the bass trombone, which he was

kind of

laughing about, um, was great.

And then while we were there, we also put together a, a new orchestral tenor, uh, prototype with a new kind of a hybrid open rap that we’re gonna be introducing later on this year at the Midwest show. So these two things are very exciting. And then of course, the reason I was there is, uh, we actually were making a, a, a video about Jay’s concepts of Legato and we were doing some excerpts from Wagner’s, uh, Devoquery to showcase,

you know,

the softest playing I think I’ve ever done in my life.

But, uh, it was just great to get to, to work with Jay and, uh, Read [00:05:00] Capshaw and Robin Schultz, legendary Chicago trombone players and polish something up at that level, um, and just have Jay who is, has so much experience to get to work in a section with him and rehearse with Jay. And,

you know, he,

he knows every tempo and every note and every slur exactly how he wants it and to

like

polish something like that and then record it, we recorded it on Sunday, in his living room.

He’s got a beautiful living room. it was just, it was a dream come true. It was just absolutely thrilling.

You know,

we don’t really get to practice stuff like that and polish something at that level

of,

of pristiness. Uh, we’re just always going gig to gig

and,

and getting the job done and not really thinking about,

you know,

every little detail of the music in every second.

It was a real big treat for me to get to, to be a part of that. And, uh, and I got to use the new O’Malley bass prototype on that, um, which was also a fun treat, as well as a bit of a learning curve because never played it before

and,

NOAH GLADSTONE: and,

JOHN SNELL: uh,

you know,

I shipped my [00:06:00] bass trombone there, but I ended up just playing the whole thing

on,

on the O’Malley.

And, uh, it was just so satisfying to get to hear four O’Malley trombones together

NOAH GLADSTONE: playing

JOHN SNELL: this rep. And, and Miles was our tone master for the recording.

So,

it was a lovely experience. And I will share all of this with you soon. We’ll post it up on the Brassark website and the O’Malley website, and I think Jay’s gonna put a, a blog about it on his site.

kind of

talking about his concepts

for Legato. He said some stuff to me while we were rehearsing that just totally blew my mind. Um, and again, every time I spent any time with, with the man, the knowledge just that he says in passing these little nuggets of wisdom that live with you forever and change the way that you think about you app – the way you approach it, the instrument,

you know,

NOAH GLADSTONE: remarkable

JOHN SNELL: human being.

He’s 87 years old. He’s still playing amazing. He’s not slowing down. we even got to play some golf. So

it was a,

it was a lovely trip, a nice little vacation, [00:07:00] working vacation for me,

NOAH GLADSTONE: so.

JOHN SNELL: But, but did you get any barbecue? That’s the, that’s the million dollar question.

NOAH GLADSTONE: We

JOHN SNELL: did not get any barbecue – Oh.

Because

NOAH GLADSTONE: we

JOHN SNELL: we have to drive to Wisconsin to get the barbecue, although we talked about it and I think he’s gonna mail me some or something. I don’t know. He’s insane. He’s like, “I’m gonna drive up there and mail it to you.”

NOAH GLADSTONE: So

JOHN SNELL: He’s a crazy person

in,

in that regard with food. But we did have some amazing meals. Uh, the Purple Pig, which is a restaurant in Chicago is just phenomenal.

We went twice because it’s so good.

So,

yeah. What a week. Look out for this stuff.

What,

what a crazy week. What a week.

I mean,

pinch me,

you know, I’m still, I’m

still, uh, I’m still

kind of

on cloud nine about it. Just,

you know,

digesting all of the, things and the, the knowledge is, it’s insane just to think about all that stuff, you

know?

What a – Well – I hope it all comes across on the recording.

I mean,

we’ll see once we get the recording back. But,

you know,

the, the, the legato concepts that he was talking about were just truly, uh, special for this kind of playing. So very cool stuff. Well, I can’t, [00:08:00] can’t wait to hear about that. Definitely let us know.

Um – I will. Anything else going on at the shop? I mean, you’ve been out of town, but,

NOAH GLADSTONE: I’ve

JOHN SNELL: been out of town,

so, you know,

I have a lot of boxes to pack up here, uh, this afternoon

and,

and get that all done. You’re still in the business of buying and

NOAH GLADSTONE: in

JOHN SNELL: selling – I’m still in the business of buying and selling trombones.

That’s right. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

So,

uh, so that’s, uh, very cool. I did get a really special instrument. I have a new Travani tenor tuba that just arrived. This is the second one that I’ve had, um, in my Brassark model collaboration with Thomas Schofkovitz. And the Travani company, he helped

kind of

put this together.

My idea was to create a more affordable five valve upright rotary euphonium that people like to call a tenor tuba, even though a tenor tuba doesn’t really exist. It’s a euphonium. But, it looks like a tuba. So looks like a tenor tuba, so it must be a tenor tuba. But, uh, this one came in, plays great, gold brass bell, beautiful crons, hand engraving, five rotary valves, tuning trigger, all the bells and whistles, large shank receiver, anything you could [00:09:00] possibly want.

Just arrived, gorgeous instrument. So that’s up on the website. And, uh, I did get a lot of really nice bass trombones in the past few weeks. Uh, just some secondhand ones that are all, like, really

top, top,

top stuff.

So,

a nice curated selection at the Brass Arc at the moment. Some more things coming in, of course.

So don’t snooze on those. What about, uh, what’s going on at Reeves? I talked a lot here. What’s going on here? Yeah. Well, it is a trombone podcast after all. True. People care more about the horns than, than the mouthpieces, but those mouthpieces are still going well. In fact, I’m, getting ready to head to Japan for our annual trip over there to Joy Brass, um, and I’m bringing a huge selection of Brassark mouthpieces with us.

Although by the time this episode posts, you know, in podcast time, I will be probably my last few days there. But, uh, I’ll be in, uh, Kofu, in Yamanashi Prefecture. I’m going to Fukuyama for the Brassworks Festival. And then the rest, the remainder of the time will be at Joy Brass in Tokyo, our home base, and [00:10:00] one of the best music stores in, on the planet.

NOAH GLADSTONE: I

JOHN SNELL: I

NOAH GLADSTONE: I

JOHN SNELL: it. I love it. I wish I was going with you.

It’s,

it’s such a fun place to be. It’s been too long. I

NOAH GLADSTONE: I

JOHN SNELL: has been eight. I need to – Eight or 10 years since last trip. Some, something like that.

I need to,

I need to go back. But I love the poster they made for you and you got

like

three exclamation marks next to your name.

So

you are,

NOAH GLADSTONE: you

JOHN SNELL: are a legit celebrity, I think. And – You know, it’s, it’s all of the, uh, the melon cream sodas I eat over there. It’s a nice picture that I chose of you too.

NOAH GLADSTONE: Like make a

fist.

JOHN SNELL: up sometimes. Yeah. Make a fist. Put, put, put your hand closer. Yeah. Um, so a huge thank you to Yo Yumura, the trombone staff over there, and of course, uh, Mr.

Sonata, the proprietor of, Sonata & Company, the distribution company, and Joy Brass, the music store. They’re, they’re, they’re like family at this point, you

NOAH GLADSTONE: people.

JOHN SNELL: best people. Just the best people. Yeah.

NOAH GLADSTONE: Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: Um, and then coming up shortly after that, I’ll be in Boston, uh, Virtuosity Musical Instruments, another fabulous store.

Uh, we seem to find them. It’s amazing. so yeah, they’re right caddy corner from, uh, Symphony [00:11:00] Hall in downtown Boston. Uh, I’ll have a full selection of, um, Brassark mouthpieces there if you wanna come in and try them. I know we have a lot of listeners from NEC and Berkeley and all the other schools that are around there.

I’ll also have some olve mutes there. if you wanna try out some of the trombone mutes, uh, in person, we’ll have some, some mutes there. and then a few weeks later, we will be at Greg Blackmouthpieces in, uh, North Carolina. Uh, we’ll be doing two events there, the NCMEA, uh, Education Conference in Winston-Salem.

that’s the 8th and 9th of November. Uh, it’s a weird one. It’s a Sunday, Monday conference. and then on Tuesday, which is, happens to be Veterans Day here in the US, Tuesday the 10th, we will be doing an in-store event actually at Greg Black’s shop in Mount Holly, which is just epic. I mean, it’s like a million mouthpieces.

You know, between Greg-Bone Mouthpiece Mecca with you – Yeah. Like, yeah.

NOAH GLADSTONE: like, yeah.

JOHN SNELL: If you’re not, if you’re looking for a new mouthpiece and you’re not there, what are you doing, really? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, that’s it. If you can’t find it there, it does, probably doesn’t [00:12:00] exist, uh, between their selection and ours. So really looking forward to it.

It’s always a great hang with, uh, Greg and Ben and the staff there. So, um, yeah. So a couple, couple, uh, trips to the East Coast. Uh, so if you ever wanted to try a, uh, Brass Ark mouthpiece or an olve mute, you have a chance, if you’re in those areas. Um, that’s all I got. Should we get to, uh, should we get to our guest?

Let’s do it. All right.

​

JOHN SNELL: Fred Wesley is one of the defining voices of Funk Trombone. As a key member, a ranger, and musical director for James Brown and the JBs, his plane helps shape some of the most important records in funk history. He later joined George Clinton’s Parliament Funkadelic, and also brought his sound into jazz with the Count Basie Orchestra.

Over a career spanning more than six decades, Fred has performed and recorded with artists, including Ray Charles, Macio Parker, Bootsy Collins, Earth, Wind & Fire, and Van Morrison. He has also continued exploring jazz [00:13:00] through projects including the Generations Trio, alongside Leonardo Karate and Tony Match.

Today, he continues to perform, record, and tour, carrying forward one of the most influential trombone voices in modern music. Now, here’s our interview with Fred Wesley.

​

JOHN SNELL: Well, it is such an honor to have joining us on the Trombone Corner today, the funkiest trombone player live, Fred Wesley. Fred, how you doing?

FRED WESLEY: I’m fine. How are you?

JOHN SNELL: doing fabulous and I, I really appreciate you joining us. I know you’re get, you’re off to Europe pretty soon here in a few weeks. I mean, you have

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: schedule.

FRED WESLEY: Um, me and my trio, we going, going to, uh, to Europe for about, about two weeks, yes.

JOHN SNELL: amazing.

NOAH GLADSTONE: we’ll

JOHN SNELL: we’ll get into that a little bit.

NOAH GLADSTONE: bit.

JOHN SNELL: and I, this is, it’s kind of silly because you have an autobiography out, so a lot of the things we’re gonna cover today, folks can read in more detail, um, in your auto- autobiography, which we’ll also talk about. But just for the sake of completeness, I’d like to know, uh, you didn’t start originally on trombone, right?

[00:14:00] You started on,

NOAH GLADSTONE: on

JOHN SNELL: piano?

FRED WESLEY: Yeah, uh, I was just, just, uh, fooling around with trombone, you know? Uh, uh, my father had a big band and, uh, he needed a trombone player in it. So he said, “So why don’t you learn how to play the trombone and I, I’ll give you a job in my band.” I was about 12 years old, 13, you know. And so, uh, I just took what I knew about fooling around with the trombone and, uh, I, I learned how to play the trombone.

I didn’t know how to read the bass clef, you know, I was on trumpet in the, in the high school band and, uh, uh, I was playing piano. So I, I just kind of picked up the trombone and just learned how to, how to play it on the, on the fly, you know?

JOHN SNELL: And so you, you already had a job lined up. That’s a musician’s dream. You’re, uh, so yeah, you’re, you said you’re around 12 years old. How long before you were playing in your father’s band?

FRED WESLEY: Immediately, he, uh, he told me that, uh, by the end of the summer, if I knew how to play the trombone, if I could make some notes, you know, that I could [00:15:00] be in the band. So I was about 12 or 13 when I started with my father.

JOHN SNELL: Amazing, already.

NOAH GLADSTONE: you right in. No, no, no nothing. You just figured it out.

FRED WESLEY: I figured it out, you know, I, I, I like that on most, I could have been a bass player or drummer or trumpet player and, uh, uh, I, I didn’t fool around with, uh, read instruments too much, but, uh, well, you know, in high school band, I was playing euphonia. And so I, I knew the valve position and the slide positions, you know, so, um, could have been anything, but I, I, I just got trombone because my father needed one in his band and I was, I was active in his band.

JOHN SNELL: did he play an instrument as well or did he just run the

band?

FRED WESLEY: he was a piano player. He, he was a piano player.

JOHN SNELL: did, did he help you out at all in reading music or anything like that or did he get you lessons?

FRED WESLEY: He kind of showed me some things, you know, he, I didn’t have any formal lessons with him, but, uh, he just showed me how to do this and how to do that. And when, when you see this, you’re supposed to do that, you [00:16:00] know, just, just things, just general things that he, he, he didn’t, he didn’t live with us for, uh, after 12 years old, but, uh, I saw him every now and then.

There’s a man named Mr. Eby Coleman that really took time and, uh, showed me some, some, the ins and out of the trombone, you know. But, uh, uh, uh, I was in the band. I was in the band.

JOHN SNELL: You’re doing it and

NOAH GLADSTONE: Do you

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

NOAH GLADSTONE: uh, what

JOHN SNELL: working.

NOAH GLADSTONE: of trombone you had first, Fred? What was the first trombone that you had? Do you

FRED WESLEY: Oh, yeah, I had an old ambassador.

NOAH GLADSTONE: Love it.

FRED WESLEY: Yeah, I know it was like such a good arm, wasn’t it?

NOAH GLADSTONE: I love it. I love that.

FRED WESLEY: Yep.

JOHN SNELL: so, uh, when did you get an interest to go on in music? Was it like an instant thing when you had, you know, playing the trombone or was it something that came along later?

FRED WESLEY: You know, I, I, I always knew I was gonna do something musical, you know? My father was a musician, my grandmother was a piano teacher, uh, uh, and I, I was always had music all around me. All my father’s friends were my friends, you know, and, [00:17:00] and I played in his band and, I always knew I was gonna be a musician, but I didn’t know what, what area I was gonna be in, you know?

And, uh, uh, so it, it, it was never a doubt what, what I, what I was gonna be. I, I knew I wasn’t gonna be a politician or a doctor or anything like that. I was gonna play something, you know?

JOHN SNELL: Play something. And, and when did you make the decision to stick with trombone?

FRED WESLEY: Well, it, uh, you know, I was around town. I played, I played bass in some, some bands and drums in some bands. but what I got called most was trombones because they didn’t have many, uh, people that could, uh, ad lib, you know, play, uh, jazz solos. And I had learned how to do that pretty well, uh, early. Yeah, I learned how to, how to play jazz solo.

So, uh, I got called mostly on trombone. And so that, that’s why, um, that’s why I stuck with the trombone more than anything, yeah.

JOHN SNELL: Fascinating. So the trombone kind of found you then get the. Yeah. [00:18:00] I’m, I’m curious here. So learning about jazz, was that all by ear or was that, you getting instruction in, in

FRED WESLEY: It was most, it was mostly about, yeah, uh, uh, my brother and his friends were listening to jazz, you know? the first, first jazz, and some of my friends too, we, we listened to JJ Johnson and, uh, Kay Wyndon and Carl Fontana and, uh, j- just listen to Miles Davis, you know? I think I know every note on, on Miles Davis album, uh, kinda blue, you know?

I think I had note ev – each note on that. And on JJ Johnson’s first, uh, album I bought, it was kinda, um, Jazz for Jazz. It was the JJ Johnson album. And, uh, I listened to those so much, so. And I, I kinda emulated what he did, you know. I never learned how to play the trombone correctly, you know, how you, you know, how you know how you, you know how to breathe and, uh, how to, uh.

NOAH GLADSTONE: it, Fred. I’m just kidding.

JOHN SNELL: That’s another [00:19:00] gig.

FRED WESLEY: Yeah. But, uh, I, I, I, I kinda emulated what I heard that’s the best way I knew how to learn how to play the trombone.

JOHN SNELL: Wow. So, so, and you were, c- correct me if I’m wrong, you were a teenager when you started playing with, um, Ike and Tina Turner, right?

FRED WESLEY: Yeah,

JOHN SNELL: how did that come about?

FRED WESLEY: the club owner, I told the club owner, I said, “I need a baritone saxophone player.” And so, uh, he said, “I don’t know, so we got a, we got no baritone sa – but we got a boy around here named Fred Wesley, he played the trombone.” So I say, “Well, we’ll try him out, you know, I about 17 years old.” And so, um, he tried me out and, uh, I played baritone saxophone, uh, and then I eventually got to be, uh, to do regular trombone player, you know?

And so, um, that was what really stabilized me to the trombone. Uh, when I finally got a gig, learned how to dance and play and how to play jazz solos, you know, when, when you [00:20:00] had solo. And so, uh, I was pre- pretty much a trombone player by that time. I couldn’t play bass. You know, most bass lines went, boom, doo, doo, doo, doo, and I could do that really good, you know, but when they started doing, all that stuff, I said, “Nah, I can’t do that.”

And, uh, I could play drums a little bit, but anything on the trombone, you know, so I, I, I, I stuck to the trombone.

JOHN SNELL: So were you touring with them? Did they, would you just get up and go off on the road?

FRED WESLEY: I went off on the road, yeah.

JOHN SNELL: Wow.

FRED WESLEY: To the grin of my mother, she did not, she didn’t, you know what, what happened, uh, I came through Mobile and, uh, I left with him and called my mother and told her I was gone. I said, “I have gone on the road withExactly,

JOHN SNELL: I guess, right?

FRED WESLEY: exactly. Yeah,

NOAH GLADSTONE: were already out. You were already

FRED WESLEY: because I know she was. I was out. I was, I was living with my grandmother, [00:21:00] but, uh, uh, I, I left, uh, left her and my mother in Mobile and I was on the road then.

JOHN SNELL: what was that like as a 17-year-old? Had you toured the country before or seen any place outside of, uh, Alabama?

FRED WESLEY: I had never been anywhere. First place I went to was Gulfport, Mississippi, next place was St. Louis, Missouri, so I, I said,” I’m officially out here now, “you know? So, uh, it, it, it was, it was, it was kind of scary and, but it was enlightening too, you know, I learned a lot of things to do and a lot of things not to never do, you know, so yeah.

JOHN SNELL: Yeah, learning, learning the business and how to put on a show and,

FRED WESLEY: Oh, yes.

JOHN SNELL: I mean, were you riding at that point as well, or were you just playing the charts that they had provided for you?

FRED WESLEY: They had no charts, you know, but, uh, and I hadn’t written anything, you know? Well, I had written just a little right, right out like, uh, things like, uh, Bills for Benny by Ray Charles, you know, I had written that out, but I, I really knew nothing about [00:22:00] arranging or riding to, uh, till I got with James Brown and he gave me an opportunity to, to write some things, you know.

Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: So that came later. so how, how long were you on the road with, with Ike and Tina?

FRED WESLEY: Oh, about a year and a half, and,

JOHN SNELL: a good, stint, yeah.

FRED WESLEY: oh yeah, I was, I was, I was road, road dog by then, you know? well, what, what happened was, I had met some people in, when I was in college, Willie Gresham and, uh, their memory, they were playing with, uh, Hank Ballard and The Midnighters, so we ran into them on the road and me and Willie was talking, I said, said, “You know, we, we can play some jazz, uh, before the show comes on, you know, we played some bebop, you know?”

So I said, ” Oh, yeah.” So we, we had no bebop in, uh, show, so I said, “Well, let me, let me go over there and play some of this bebop.” Now, that was a mistake, but I did it. I went, I was, I, I was over. And I looked [00:23:00] for the bebop, there was no beebop, you know? Actually, there was no nothing, no money, no bebop.

It was a terrible gig, you know, uh, that the guys spent most of the time getting high and chasing women, you know, and so, uh, I went back home, you know?

JOHN SNELL: Wow. Wow. So yeah, le- lesson learned, I guess. Be careful.

FRED WESLEY: Oh, that was a lesson learned, you know. I mean, like I say, I learned a lot of things to do and a lot of things that they never do, you know? And so I listened to, to certain people and, uh, uh, found out they weren’t true, you know, they just told me to stay because they wanted me with them, uh, uh, they, they wanted a trombone player in, uh, you know, Ike Turner, that was a good gig because he paid on time and, uh, the show was tight, you know, everything was, was correct, but, uh, Hank Ballard was kind of, kind of a loose gig, you know, we, we, we never went, [00:24:00] never got paid, never got paid with, with Hank Ballard.

So it was a, it was a strange thing. I, I knew I had done wrong. About two weeks into it, I knew I had made a mistake, you know?

JOHN SNELL: Yeah. So you find yourself back at home, still young, promising trombone player. what were your options? What did you do?

FRED WESLEY: Played, played around town, you know, played guitar, played, uh, bass and drums and anything, trombone, I played some trombone, you know, I met some, um, some really great bebop player like Ed Pratt. He was a good saxophone player. Joe Lewis was a good saxophone player and, uh, Joe Morris, uh, a lot of guys in, uh, Mobile could play jazz, and so, but it wasn’t many jazz gigs in Mobile, but I played with those guys that, uh, played the jazz thing, and I was getting better and better with, uh, Bebop, you know, playing Chazz.

So, um, I, I, I did that, but to make money and, uh, to, [00:25:00] to, uh, support myself in Mobile, I played whatever, whatever came around, I would do it, you know.

JOHN SNELL: Didn’t matter the instrument, didn’t matter the gig.

FRED WESLEY: Baby instrument.

JOHN SNELL: ends meet. Yeah. so, uh, what, I mean, what did your practicing look like back then? I mean, were you practicing each of the instruments that you could play or

FRED WESLEY: I was, I

JOHN SNELL: focused on trombone?

FRED WESLEY: I only practiced on trombone,

JOHN SNELL: Really?

FRED WESLEY: because I’m, I’m really in love with the trombone, you know, because, you know, it, not, it’s not like today, today, everybody plays trombone. So many trombone players out there now, it’s unbelievable, you know? But, uh, uh, during that time, it was very few trombone players, so I just looked at it as a way.

And I, and I, I play, I could play it like a trumpet, uh, like, like a val instrument too, you know? And a lot, a lot of people couldn’t tell whether I was playing a bowel instrument or a slide instrument, you know, because it was, I, I, I learned how to play clean, how to, how to, how to play, you know, instead of the wound that, that trombone player did during that [00:26:00] time, you know, all trombone players did, most of them, some, some do that now, but, to play each note, uh, and, and be able to tell one note from another, you know, changes, card changes, I was, I was getting pretty good at that, you know?

I really enjoyed it too. I, I, I was learning and I really enjoyed how to do it, you know?

NOAH GLADSTONE: Yeah, your articulation is, uh, is instantly recognizable, I would say. Uh, nobody really articulates like you.

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

NOAH GLADSTONE: something that you learned from listening to other players or you came up with it on your own or just

out of necessity, you’re just trying to play as clean as possible?

FRED WESLEY: you know, uh, I, I learned it from JJ Johnson, uh, that, that, that’s who I was listening to at the time, but I also had, had some blues in me and, uh, some rock and roll in me too, you know, so I put the two together and, uh, uh, I was playing, uh, hardbop with, with a rock slant on it, you know, and some [00:27:00] blues in it too.

And so that’s how I developed a different kind of a style and, uh, a different kind of a way of playing the trombone. You know, I still don’t know how to, how to double tongue or triple tongue, stuff like that, you know, and trombone, all trombone players learn early. I did not learn that early, you know, so I just learned how to get the notes out the way I wanted them to come out, you know?

You, you should listen to the album that I did called To Someone, and, uh, uh, I amazed myself on that album, you know, but, uh, uh, I still had to play, play, uh, bebop and, uh, and, and, uh, I had to play rock and roll and blues and stuff on trombone, you know, but, uh, I really was trying to articulate the way I wanted to hear, not necessarily like JJ Johnson, but J- JJ Johnson was the closest that I came to, uh, to learning how to play bebop.

JOHN SNELL: Oh, fascinating. and you, uh, at [00:28:00] what point did you, you joined the army, right? When you were, uh, when you were young? Was that around this time?

FRED WESLEY: Yeah, right when I, when I went home after, uh, the Hank Ballad, I, fool around, you know, gig to gig, instrument, instrument, and I finally got inducted. Well, I had a choice. Well, I went in the Army, I went in the Army, and, um, I said, ” I’m gonna go into the Army and, uh, and learn the Army band.” Then they told me, said, “You know, you, you really can’t, can’t play the correct, the way to play the trombone, but we’re gonna let you go to the Army School of Music.”

So I said, “Okay, you know, that’s, that’s fine.” But, uh, I was, I was looking to go to some exotic place like Hawaii, uh, Germany, uh, you know, somewhere that I could really get it to, get to know the world, you know? But, uh, I was sent back to Huntsville, Alabama. I said, “What? What’s going back?”[00:29:00]

JOHN SNELL: Right

FRED WESLEY: Oh, no, I, I, I left Alabama, you know? But, uh, I found out that, uh, Huntsville, Alabama, Red Stone Arsenal had a band that was, it was on par with, with Count Bases band, not as good, but they had some great musicians in that band. The, the CO was a, a, a, a alto player. He had played with Les Elgard and, uh, it was some, some masterful guys in that band.

And, uh, I learned a lot by being in the band, it was a good experience. Uh, I, I, I found, found out where I was, where I was, uh, rejecting to go, I was very proud to be in that band. You know, we, we, we, some of the guys, and me, we still stay in touch right now, you know?

JOHN SNELL: Wow, after all these years. Yeah. So, so then after the, after the army, how did it come around that you, uh, got hooked up with James Brown?

FRED WESLEY: Well, um, after the army, I, I, I formed a, a little side [00:30:00] R&B band wh- while I was in the army, you know, I played in the army band, but, uh, but we mostly did, uh, did some gigs, some, uh, some parties, for the general and some, some, uh, boat races, you know, in Gunnersville. And, but, uh, I also formed a little R&B band on the side and we, we toured around Alabama, for a while.

And when I got out of the army, I continued with that band called the Wesley Davis Master Sound. And, uh, we, uh, finally broke that band up because, oddly enough, because the band wanted to do Cold Sweat by James Brown. You hear that?

JOHN SNELL: Mm-hmm.

NOAH GLADSTONE: Mm. course.

FRED WESLEY: I, I didn’t like the song. I said, “That’s a silly song, you know, we don’t do no stuff like that, you know, because we, we were, it was like an experimental band, you know, we did, did some arrangement on yesterday, you know, and, uh, some, some tunes, you know, that it was experiment, you know, but we had, had, had some, uh, R&B in it, so we played some [00:31:00] gigs too, you know.

But, um, the band broke up because of cold sweat. went back home,

JOHN SNELL: Yeah.

FRED WESLEY: I went back home and, uh, fooled around again with, with, uh, playing the trombone, playing drums, uh, whatever instrument I can. And a trumpet player that I knew from, sitting in on a, on, on a jam session on the road or somewhere, maybe in Mobile, I don’t know, but anyway, Waymon Reid, he asked me, he said, uh, he called me up and said,” You want a gig?

“He said,” James Brown needs the trumon player. “I said,” James Brown? “”No, I, I don’t wanna do that,” you know? I said, and he, he just screaming, hollering, sissy. I said, ” I, I, I can’t do that, you know?” But, uh, he talked to me, talked to me, told me who was in the band, P. Elliot, I knew him as a, as a great cyclophone player.

He was the band lead, and Wyman Reid could play trumpet, you know? And Macio Parker, he was, he was the, the psycho. And plus, my friend Jabo was [00:32:00] playing drums with him, you know, and, and Bernard Odom would play, I said, “Well, may- maybe, maybe I, I, I, I can get into this band, you know?” And, and I, I pr- probably get to New York somewhere, you know, because I, I went to California with but I quit that game before they got to California, so

JOHN SNELL: Oh, no.

FRED WESLEY: he had my chance to, uh, really play some music and, uh, see the real world, you know?

And so, uh, I took the gig with James Brown.

JOHN SNELL: I got the call and you took it. What was it like? Oh, did you just jump right in on the first gig or were there any rehearsals or anything?

FRED WESLEY: Funny, he would say rehearsals or anything, you know? James Brown, come to find out, he rehearsed every day, long, right, right at the time to play the gig, he would rehearse all the time, you know? And it, it, it was, it, it was just hard for me to rehearse that much, but it, I could do it, you know, so I fell right in with, with, with, with the guys in the band.

I met Basio Parker and, uh, uh, [00:33:00] Joe Dupa, Jabo, and Badar, they, all, all of us became real good friends, PB Ellis, Clyde Stubblefield, you know, and, and I, it was a, it was a tight show. I mean, it, I really. When I, when I saw that show, I was really amazed, you know? The first show I did was with, James Brown was in Ocala, Florida, and, uh, it was no, no, no big auditorium, no performing arts center, it was in a rodeo barn.

And, uh, the band, but the show was set up, they had lights and, uh, costumes and, uh, it was a show was arranged like a, a, a Broadway show, you know? It was, it was. And I was amazed that the James Brown show was that well organized and it, it was that good, you know, it was the best show I ever seen in my life, you know?

And I was proud to be in that band, but still no Bebop, but, um, and, and it was a little Bebop, a little Bebop, but, uh, very little Bebop, you know, [00:34:00] but, uh, I, I was, I was, I was really proud to be in the James Brown band

JOHN SNELL: And, and so what was the schedule like? I mean, were you guys just on the road all year long or was it on and off?

FRED WESLEY: all year long. Uh, we, I rarely got home for, for Christmas. No, I did get home for Christmas, you know, and I was with, for two years before, uh, before Peewee left, because it was, James Brown was a hard man to work for, you know, so Peewee left and, uh, Macio left and, uh, Bootsy came in and he left, you know, so it, it left me to be the band leader, you know?

So James, James Brown told me, say, uh, say, “You, you could be…” But I got mad, I left too, you know? He, he, he was really an unreasonable, un- unyielding kind of a band leader, you know? People didn’t like him, you know, didn’t like play in the band, but they liked to be on the road and all that notoriety [00:35:00] they got by being with James Brown was good, but the rest of it was the show, the rehearsals, all long rehearsals, it had, had to be, but, uh, people didn’t like it till they left and, uh, left me.

So.

JOHN SNELL: So find yourself the band leader?

FRED WESLEY: But, it was an opportunity to learn how to write. I learned how to write. I learned from, from Dave Matthews, you know, he was a great arranger from Cincinnati. You know Dave Matthews?

NOAH GLADSTONE: Hm.

FRED WESLEY: He, he’s a, a, a great arranger. I, I, I got. Well, not lessons from him, but he would tell me some things to do, you know, how to record.

I had the best musicians in New York recording with me.

NOAH GLADSTONE: They’re calling. They’re still calling you, Fred.

FRED WESLEY: The best musicians from the rider, uh, Randy Brether, uh, Michael Brether,

NOAH GLADSTONE: Yeah, the best. 60

FRED WESLEY: great musicians and, and I, they, with the name [00:36:00] James Brown, I got special treatment from them even, you know, because I had James Brown behind me, you know? So I, I enjoyed that very much. And I learned a lot.

I learned how to record, I learned how to write, I learned how to write songs, you know, and I, I wrote, I wrote a few songs, you know, and, uh, I, still get paid from, from, uh, some of the publishing that I get from James Brown, you know? So it, it was a, it was a good experience

JOHN SNELL: 60 years ago? Uh, what was that? 60s, 70s? You’re still getting fade? I mean, I, I mean, a lot of that stuff’s still being sampled. Uh,

NOAH GLADSTONE: though. Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: you, you might be one of the most sampled person on the planet.

FRED WESLEY: I get rid from that, uh, uh, uh, samples, all, all, all the things, you know, but it, was a good experience with James Brown, you know? It was hard. It was hard being. I tell you so much, yes, sir, Mr. Brown, you right, I say something to you so many times that I though that was my mantra, you know?

JOHN SNELL: Mm-hmm.

NOAH GLADSTONE: Uh,

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

NOAH GLADSTONE: how was it like just [00:37:00] playing on your chops, like, to, to do those jobs? You’re playing, you’re putting so much sound out there and, and it’s just brutal, especially with the rehearsals and all that. How did you do that? I mean, that’s, that’s an incredible thing to be able to play with that much sound, you know?.

FRED WESLEY: It was, uh, it was easy at the time because I practiced all the time, you know, but now it’s showing up. It’s showing up now. My, my lip is so soft now, I, I can’t last maybe, maybe two or three gigs, you know? And, uh,

NOAH GLADSTONE: Mm-hmm.

FRED WESLEY: it, my lips get soft. I, I, I can’t, I can’t, um, get that sound like I used to could. I, so I play very soft now, and I play very little, you know, we have the show range, so where it look like I’m playing a lot, but I’m not playing a lot, you know?

But, uh, it, it, it really takes, takes a toll on, on what, what you do, you know, and how you do it, how you do it, you know?

JOHN SNELL: so you mentioned you were practicing a lot. So when you were on the road, uh, I mean, obviously rehearsing a lot with James and [00:38:00] doing the shows, but were you just figuring stuff out- outside of the band and

FRED WESLEY: Oh, yeah, it took, it took. I, I had had to write. Sometimes we would be on, on tour and I have to write s- songs on the bus, you know? And I, I had a little keyboard, but I, I used the trombone to, to hear some things that I, that I was writing, you know? Uh, but I, I knew that, uh, if I write this down, uh, John Faddis is gonna play it, you know?

So, so anything that I wrote would have to be. It, it was unique. It was unique because I, I, I, I wrote without a piano, without any real training, you know. I, I had a little, little, uh, four-part writing when I was in college, but, uh, no really, uh, arranging, uh, lessons or anything, you know? So.

JOHN SNELL: Yeah.

NOAH GLADSTONE: the, the, the, using the trombone as your, a writing [00:39:00] tool, basically. It’s such a unique perspective because you’re coming, what you hear in your head and what you’re, what you’re playing, and then you’re writing charts out with, you know,

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

NOAH GLADSTONE: perspective. I think it makes definitely a unique, uh, uh, a unique, unique point of view.

FRED WESLEY: It did. It did, yeah.

JOHN SNELL: you were on, uh, James Brown’s band for eight years or so? Eight or nine years, I

FRED WESLEY: That’s about seven years, seven years.

JOHN SNELL: then you just, was it a thing where you just had enough and decided to move on? Was it a difficult decision?

FRED WESLEY: Yep. It was not difficult, it was time.

JOHN SNELL: It was time. Yeah.

FRED WESLEY: It was time to move on, but, uh, I, I, I had gotten disgusted with James Brown, you know, and I, I, I, I figured that, um, we had gone far as we could go together, you know? But I, we would argue all the time, and he, naturally, he would win all the arguments, you know, and so I just, I just, I was just, I was just fed up.

And, uh, plus, Bootsy, you know, you know Bootsy Collins?

JOHN SNELL: of cones, yeah.[00:40:00]

FRED WESLEY: Yeah, he, he, he had formed a band called the Bootsy Rubber Band, and he told me he wanted me and Macio to play in his band, and, uh, that was, Macio was already gone for James Brown, but, uh, me, I hadn’t, uh, I hadn’t joined, uh, I mean, I hadn’t left James Brown yet, but Boosie came to me and asked me if I wanted to play in his band, you know, and I told him, yeah, so me and Basile, we joined Bootsy’s Rubber Band, and, uh, had a great, great time.

Bootsy carried us to, uh, George Clinton, who formed Parliament Funkadelic, that, uh, that show was amazing, you know, the, uh, uh, funk mob, as they call it, you know, and I, uh, I stayed with that long as I could.

JOHN SNELL: I was gonna say, so was that, that was, that was formed while you were with, uh, uh, Bootsy’s Rubber Band?

FRED WESLEY: Yeah, yeah. There were, the two bands were recording together, you know? Um, Bootsy did some rhythm [00:41:00] tracks, uh, some of the guys and Gary they did some things with Bootsy, and it was, uh, a mismatch of, uh, tracks that I had. And I, I was hired to do the horns, to do the. I was a great horn arrangement because the, the horns that James Brown, they ain’t know that James Brown did most of the horns, you know, I wrote them down, you know, but I got to be a great horn arrangement, you know, so, uh,

NOAH GLADSTONE: would James sing you parts and then you’d transcribe them or would you guys have

FRED WESLEY: Yep.

NOAH GLADSTONE: between that?

FRED WESLEY: James, James would sing for us and, uh, uh, I would do mostly what he said, but mostly I had to make sense out of it, you know, but, uh, uh, same thing didn’t make sense, but it was a, a different type of idea, you know? And so I would just put it, put it in, into some kind of musical form and, uh, that’s the way I got to be a good horn right, you know.

JOHN SNELL: So tell us what it was like with, with George Clinton. I mean, that just seems like a party on stage.

FRED WESLEY: [00:42:00] know, actually it was. It was just like a party like, uh, I could write anything and, uh, uh, get paid for it, you know, for George and write anything for Booster, get paid for it and solos and I got, got a reputation as a great home player, you know, I was, I was living the life, you know? And, and the show, oh my goodness, that was a party.

It was a party, but, but of course, you know, uh, being with James Brown and the way I was raised, you know, I got into some, some skullduggerous things, you know, and, uh, I, I had to leave, uh, Boosie and George Clinton when I got a call from the great Count Basie, you know? So

JOHN SNELL: To himself? Did you just pick up the phone and, hey, it’s count?

FRED WESLEY: the same guy that hired me with James Brown, he was now playing with Count Basie, Waymon Read. And,

JOHN SNELL: a minute. Wow.

FRED WESLEY: and, uh, so he asked me, did I wanna play with, [00:43:00] uh, Count Base? I said, yeah, you know. Now, I had no idea that I was gonna stay in that band, but I said, I, I always had a rule. If I, somebody asked me to play in the band and I wanted to play in the band, I was gonna take the gig whether I ain’t stay a day or two days, you know, I was gonna take it anyway, you know, as long as I could, you know?

But, uh, I, I stayed there a year. Stayed there, stay with Count Basie a year.

JOHN SNELL: What was that like? I mean, you, you, I mean, you, you’ve made such a name for yourself in Funk, uh, and then to go into Big Band, uh,

FRED WESLEY: Well, I had learned a lot in the army

JOHN SNELL: yeah.

FRED WESLEY: from, from, from those great guys, and it was a big band in the army, but, uh, I just had to, had to think back to the army days. And then, of course, my wardrobe had to change, you know? But, uh, uh, I, I, I eventually got in the band, you know, plus a couple guys helped me out, you know, you know, guys, musicians, some of them are, are, are, are kind of stoic, you know, [00:44:00] and it would, uh, uh, not help you, you know, but, uh, Mel Wynzo and Bill Hughes, uh, they helped me out, you know, and, uh, uh, saxophone section was good, and trumpet player, you know, Wyman Reid and the rest of the guys, they all, all helped me out, you know?

I, I’m very lucky to be, to be, uh, helped by great musicians, you know? I don’t know nothing on my own, but anything I wanna know, I can call up somebody right now and they tell me what’s happening, you know, and they can do it, you know? and I think that uneducated part of me is what makes me unique, you know?

JOHN SNELL: Mm-hmm.

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: Uh, did you get to solo? Uh, which, where were you playing in the band? Or did you move around?

FRED WESLEY: I played second, second trombone, and I got a couple of solos, and one, one tune called Left-Handed Funk. Can you believe how Basey did? It’s on an album, uh, called Left-Handed Funk. [00:45:00] I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know what it. It was live, live in Japan, 1979, and I, I played a solo on that, you know? Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: Amazing. So you were on there for a year. Um, yeah, I’m, I’m curious, like, in terms of the, kind of the arc of your career, I mean, you, you seem like you got a lot of work playing in the funk, you know, J- James Brown and George Clinton, but you always kind of steered towards jazz. I mean, is

FRED WESLEY: Yes.

JOHN SNELL: kind of a fair assessment that you’re, you know,

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: were hoping to play Bebop again or,

FRED WESLEY: I was really hoping,

JOHN SNELL: soloist?

FRED WESLEY: I was really hoping. In fact, when I went to, uh, I moved to Denver and, uh, my brother was a great jazz DJ, but, uh, he, he had a, a jazz radio station too, you know, much like what you, what you all had. And, uh, he always loved the way I played jazz, you know? So he got me to come to Denver, quit his job, let me sit [00:46:00] down months, almost a year, practice, practice, practice.

And, um, then we did an album called Too Someone. Listen to that, listen to that album. And, uh, um, we got some great musicians, Bruno Carr on drums, um, Ken Walker on bass. He was a younger bass player, but he would play, and Joe Barner on, on piano, and me on trombone, and, uh, we did some, some great tunes on there, you know?

I finally got, got my, uh, my wish to play Bebop.

JOHN SNELL: You got, you got to play Bebop. It wasn’t with the moonlighters. Um, so, and you lived out, you lived out in, uh, Southern California for awhile, right? Did you move out to

LA?

FRED WESLEY: Yeah, I lived out there for, for a minute, yeah. Yeah, my, my first wife,

JOHN SNELL: were you working out here or was that when you were on the road and this was just kind of home base?

FRED WESLEY: well, I, oh, yeah, I was in. She was a big, it’s a big gap between, uh, Count Basie [00:47:00] and that album, the, the Two Someone album. And, did, I did a lot of things in, uh, uh, Los Angeles, you know, because I had the reputation of being a, a, a horn arranger, so I got a lot of horn arranging gigs. And, uh, I played, played on some shows, like, like American Idol, I, I was in that show, you know. Uh, we did, uh, the Image Award, you know, just stuff like that, you

NOAH GLADSTONE: Yeah, freelance, freelance studio stuff out in LA. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

FRED WESLEY: But, uh, Macio came calling, him and Pee Wee put a band together and called the JB Horns and that, that was a great show too. But in between that, I did, did that Too Someone album, and I, I, I hope you listen to it just, just, uh, to see how it.

JOHN SNELL: And we’ll make sure we, we’ll link to it down below in the, in the description and every, you know, show notes page so folks can find it, along with all the other stuff you have. you said talk about the JB Horns. I mean, you had, uh, number of horn sections that you played through with, uh, throughout your career and recorded for other artists and things like that. can you talk about some of the other [00:48:00] projects you did? Uh, I mean, it said here you pl – recorded with Red Hot Chili Peppers and,

FRED WESLEY: Oh, yeah.

JOHN SNELL: D Light and, you know, Groove in the, Groove is in the Hard, which is like a, you know, electronic music classic. Talk, talk about a crossover, you know?

FRED WESLEY: I get more money from Grooves and the Hart than any other

we did. That, that, that, that, that, that’s all.

JOHN SNELL: That’s all you… Five notes, right? Five or six notes.

FRED WESLEY: Yeah, yeah.

NOAH GLADSTONE: It’s a catchy five notes though.

FRED WESLEY: Oh, yeah, but, with Pee Wee and Macio, we had a band called, uh, the JB Horns, naturally the James Brown Horns, we had a great little session, uh, um, Jamal Thomas, Jerry Preston, Bruno Spate, and Will Boware. That was a great band, that band. Look, as far as a show, that was the greatest band that I ever played in.

We, we did a, we did a show sometimes. And Macio was the, leader [00:49:00] of that band. So we follow Macio. Macio would do two, three, maybe four hour shows, you know, and they would, they would all be interested and all, all be, uh, be very funky and, and people loved it, you know? And we, we did that for about three years all over the, all over the Europe, all over the country, you know?

And so I really enjoyed that a whole lot, you know? one reason or another, it, it broke up. So Macio kept his band. He did, did real good for a while. And I, I, I formed my band called, uh, uh, Fred Wester and the New JBs, and, uh, Pebe had had a band called the, uh, Assembly, Assembly. So we, we went our separate ways, but together we were, we were dynamites.

We were Dynamite.

NOAH GLADSTONE: of the best, some of the best recordings

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: comes up playing with each other for decades

FRED WESLEY: So, you know, we, we, we just knew what we wanna do, you know? Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: Amazing. [00:50:00] and so now, uh, what, what are some of the current projects, uh, you’re going to, uh, tour in Europe with your trio, right?

FRED WESLEY: Yeah, yeah. Um,

JOHN SNELL: that form and tell us about that group?

FRED WESLEY: I have an amazing organ player named Leonardo Karate. He is fantastic. He’d been playing since he was a kid. He was, he was like, I think he was 18, 19 years old when I first met him. And, uh, uh, he was playing electric organ like, like Jimmy Smith, you know. In fact, he idolized Jimmy Smith. And it started out being a tribute to Jimmy Smith, but we got, um, Tony Max on drums and, uh, he’s a good drummer, he’s a very good drummer.

And me, now, the way we do it, we make it, sound like it’s my show, but Leonardo is the real, star of that show, you know? And he can really play. And I, I do my part. I do, uh, I sing a couple of songs and I, I do a song that I wrote, wrote called The Old Man Song. And, uh, we, we make, we make [00:51:00] it good. We make it real good.

And people enjoy it very much. We stalled Fred West’s Generations.

JOHN SNELL: Generations.

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: Uh, uh, you guys don’t do cold sweat, do you?

FRED WESLEY: No, but we do

JOHN SNELL: You gonna throw that, you should throw that in there just for

NOAH GLADSTONE: should throw

JOHN SNELL: to

FRED WESLEY: I, I got, I, I do Codeswell with my other band, with, uh, the, the new JB.

JOHN SNELL: You, you guys cover that?

FRED WESLEY: I do it. I do, yeah. Because I, it, it turned out to be my favorite song, you know? And especially,

JOHN SNELL: how many times do you think you’ve played that in your life? I mean,

FRED WESLEY: oh, I don’t know, up in the millions, you know? Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: And, uh, I mean, looking at your schedule, I mean, it’s just, uh, the, just the constitution you have to, you know, play night after night after night, and what, you’re in, you’re in your 80s now? Like, you must

FRED WESLEY: Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: love the trombone. It’s incredible.

FRED WESLEY: Yeah. I, I don’t play much anymore, but I do what I do, you know, and, and, uh, it’s, it’s mostly on reputation now, but, uh, can play a little bit, play a [00:52:00] little bit, you know.

JOHN SNELL: Yeah. So, uh, I’m curious, yeah, you’re not on your old Ambassador still, I’m assuming. What, uh,

FRED WESLEY: Oh.

JOHN SNELL: mean, what, when, what, what horns were you using back on the, in the James Brown and George Clinton days?

FRED WESLEY: I had a King,

JOHN SNELL: Mm-hmm.

FRED WESLEY: King 2B, uh, when I first started with, uh, uh,

But then, uh, I, I got a King 3B when I was, uh, in the army. And then I, some, some, for some reason, I wanted a, horn that had some gibberies right there.

NOAH GLADSTONE: Yeah.

FRED WESLEY: I’m telling you, it’s the only reason I got a horn like this, you know? But because it had some stuff like this. And it, I, I, I though it would give me a bigger sound, you know, but, uh, it turned out this sound sound like, yeah.

Especially with me playing it, you know? But, uh, uh, this is the Yamaha now. And, the, in the army, I played a, a, a, a con, constillate, uh, what do you call [00:53:00] it?

NOAH GLADSTONE: 48H Constellation?

FRED WESLEY: Yeah. I fought that when I was in the army and, uh, uh, but I, I, I got a, a new horn, a King 3B, and I played that for, for a long time after that, you know.

JOHN SNELL: On

FRED WESLEY: I got another Yamaha that I play on, on the gigs, the Yamaha. Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: uh, curious, what, what mouthpiece did you use?

FRED WESLEY: I got a Dennis Wick.

JOHN SNELL: Mm-hmm.

FRED WESLEY: I’ve been playing it for years, you know, Dennis Wick, uh, medium ball, but, it’d be right, right? But my lips.

JOHN SNELL: I’m curious, like, looking back at your, your career now, you know, like, what advice you could give someone who wants to go into, the area of playing, you know, going on on the road and doing recording and stuff.

Um, you know, what, what were some of the most important things you learned on the job, for that kind of career?

FRED WESLEY: Well, first of all, you, you should start out correctly. I mean, pick an instrument, uh, pick a couple of instruments and practice on those instruments, you know? Because, [00:54:00] uh, like, like the way I did it, you know, I, I was just fooling around with a lot of instruments, you know? And in, in, in a town like Mobile, Alabama, you could get away with stuff like that.

You don’t have to play real good. But, uh, uh, first thing, learn your instrument real good. you, you, you can, um, get away with, freelancing in, in, uh, in my area, you know? But, you have to learn your instruments because I, I see a lot of people that, like, I know a guitar player in Pensacola, he’s 13 years old and he plays blues like, uh, like BB King, you know?

So I told him, I said, “At your age, if you pick your guitar up and learn your skills and your chords, you could be, when you, by the time you get to be 20, you could be as good as Joey Benson, you know?” Because he knows all how to, how to do, but he just don’t know all the stuff to do, you know?

But, uh, but he’s, I think that he’s satisfied with being able to play blues, like, you know, but, uh, [00:55:00] anyway, practice, practice, practice. You have to practice all the time, you know? but then learn the business, you know? publishing business, uh, uh, touring business, uh, you know, I, I made a terrible mistake of going with Hank Ballard and Midnight when I had a good gig with.

Uh, and, uh, get your educated, you know, learn, learn what to do, what to do and what to do. Have an attitude when you, when you get a gig, go to the gig and be on time and, and, and, and stuff like that, you know, uh, uh, be, amicable to your fellow musicians. You know, you just, you have to learn how to, how to think like a musician which is playing together, you know?

things like that, you know, uh, that, that’s the best I can do, learn your instrument, learn the business, be a nice guy.

NOAH GLADSTONE: And play, and play well.

FRED WESLEY: You know?

JOHN SNELL: Have fun doing it. Uh, well, Fred Ben, if it’s been such an honor having you on here, um, [00:56:00] yeah, Funky Fred Wesley is your website. any other, any projects? I know you’re getting ready to go on a tour. Any other projects, uh, coming up, uh, that we should know about?

FRED WESLEY: Well, uh, we, uh, we do, the generations tour, then we, then we do the, uh, new JB’s tour, so just look out for us. we do a good show, I guarantee you would let it enjoy it, you know?

JOHN SNELL: And we’ll make sure we have,

NOAH GLADSTONE: we have,

JOHN SNELL: links to, so folks can go to your website and find out where you’re touring, obviously, your, your albums and your autobiography and stuff like that. but what a joy it’s been, what a treat for us.

NOAH GLADSTONE: us.

JOHN SNELL: before we let you go, Fred, uh, if I can leave you with one last question, for our listeners. if you could leave our listeners with your best piece of advice, and it could be about anything, what would that be?

FRED WESLEY: Learn the business. Learn the business. Along with your instrument, learn the business of music.

JOHN SNELL: Yeah, so many of us spend time in the practice room and we don’t know what the nuts and bolts of the business are. Absolutely. [00:57:00] well, what an honor, uh, just to be here with a legend. Thank you so much for your time and,

NOAH GLADSTONE: and

JOHN SNELL: travels to Europe and hope to catch you in person one of these days.

FRED WESLEY: Okay, thank you guys. Thank you so much.

NOAH GLADSTONE: you. Thank you.

​

JOHN SNELL: Well, there you have it, Noah.

another one for the books. My goodness. What a legend. Oh my God.

NOAH GLADSTONE: Ugh.

JOHN SNELL: Uh, I mean, unfortunately, I can’t do an intro like James Brown, nor should I, but I, I feel like, you know, nothing we do to introduce Fred was gonna. You, you hear the recordings of him, what, you know, “Take me higher, Fred.”

You like doing

NOAH GLADSTONE: yeah.

JOHN SNELL: the James Brown thing and then he comes in and starts playing those lips. Oh, just, just, craziest stuff. Yeah. The best. Yeah. But I don’t know, maybe we can bump a.

We’ll,

we’ll put a little clip right here to take us out or something. I don’t know. And then we’ll get, we’ll get dinged on, uh, dinged on YouTube – Right.

Copyright. Um, but, uh, I mean, what a legend. And, uh, I mean, obviously, we just scratched the surface of his, you know, 60 plus year career. Yeah, like you said, [00:58:00] he’s got a great autobiography. I think, you

know,

everyone

should,

should find that and read it.

I mean,

an incredible person you know,

how he ended up all in, in all the right places, it seems like.

Um – Yeah. That’s not by accident,

you know?

NOAH GLADSTONE: It’s not by

JOHN SNELL: Yeah. It’s not by There’s a lot of gems in there about him learning the business and, you know, I mean, I, could you imagine going on the road with Ike and Tina Turner in your teenage years and living to talk about it, you know? I mean – Crazy. Uh, honestly, like, you know, you start

NOAH GLADSTONE: Totally

JOHN SNELL: different time back then.

Going on the road. Yeah. Wow. Crazy. Yeah. Probably a good thing he went on the road at a young age because he learned to manage not only, you know, the tour, but himself. It was a good, it was a good act too, I think,

you know,

to start off. Yeah. Set him up on the right, right path. Yeah. So he – Like you sad, you gotta learn the business, right?

Number one thing, learn the business. Learn the business. Um, huge thank you to Fred for being on, on the podcast. Uh, funkyfredwesley.com is his website. We’ll have links to all of that, as well as, uh, his tour schedule and the, the album to someone that he had mentioned. I mean, he’s been on a lot of [00:59:00] albums, but I think in particular, he was really proud of, that one.

So we’ll make sure we link to that down below. Uh, we’ll find you those places. and thank you for listening. now that we’re on YouTube, it’s our second episode on YouTube, make sure you hit that, subscribe button. I can see how many people watch the video. And definitely more than half of you who watched the last episode are not subscribers.

So please, uh, do us a favor, hit that subscription button, hit that, subscribe button, hit that thumbs up on YouTube. and not quite as important on Spotify and those other places, but you don’t wanna miss an episode of

NOAH GLADSTONE: Yeah.

JOHN SNELL: the trombone corner. Yeah, certainly helps us on the YouTube stuff a lot, so – Yeah.

It’s feeding the algorithm. It’s the world we live in these days.

NOAH GLADSTONE: In

JOHN SNELL: order

NOAH GLADSTONE: to

JOHN SNELL: to get more stuff about the trombone out in the world. Exactly. Which is what we all wanna do. So more trombone. Yeah. More trombone.

NOAH GLADSTONE: More

JOHN SNELL: More trombone in the world. It’d be a much, much better world with more trombone. So – That’s right.

But it means a lot to us. Uh, thank you for writing in. We’re still getting comments and guest suggestions. Uh, we have a lot of wonderful guests coming up to, to end 2026. So, until next time, keep [01:00:00] on sliding.

Author Ted Cragg

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